IMPORTANT: Please make sure your posts do not contain any personally identifiable information (both your own and that of others). When uploading images, please take care that you have redacted all personal information including number plates, reference numbers and QR codes (which may reveal vehicle information when scanned).
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!

Council PCN For An O2J - Help Please!

Options
As the registered keeper I have received a PCN for the above code which says parking or loading/unloading in a restricted street where waiting and loading/unloading restrictions are in force. I will just say I was NOT the guilty driver!

I have been to the council and seen the video. It shows that the rear of the car (wheels) where just outside and on the yellow lines.
The PCN was given by a roving remote camera CEO and the video also shows the driver returning to the car and driving off so that the car was only there for less than 2 minutes as the person had stopped to go and read information on the door of a shop which was shut as it was almost 8.00pm.

I have prepared the following appeal letter and would appreciate some help/comments. I have not put anything in about the length of time parked or the fact that the only part of the wheel that were in the restricted area where the rear wheels and would appreciate some guidance on that.

Ive uploaded the documents so they can be viewed here:

http://s274.photobucket.com/user/dodgydo/library/Kingston%20PCN


This appeal is in regard to PCN No X on DATE for Reg No X . The PCN was served by post on the basis of a record produced by an approved device and that the above vehicle was observed at X pm on x date and that a charge is payable on the grounds that an alleged parking contravention O2J occurred - Parked or Unloading in a restricted street where waiting and loading/unloading restrictions are in force.

I appeal on the following points.

1.Please supply a statement from the named civil enforcement officer (CEO) who reviewed the video film and decided to issue the PCN.
2.There should be evidence in addition to the film footage to show that the carriage way markings and roadway signs are present and in order. Please supply this.
3.Was the camera an approved device? Please supply the VCA certificate, name model number and model number of the camera used.
4.Please show me where the warnings signs are that there is camera enforcement taking place. Camera Enforcement should not be used as a substitute for a CEO issued PCN. There is no justification for the camera vehicle not being parked for a few minutes and the driver who was filming not getting out of his vehicle and issuing the PCN. Please explain why this was not done. Signs warning of stationary parking enforcement by CCTV which is required as set out in S.9. of the “CCTV Code of Practice” issued by the ICO. This would also require the appropriate signs being authorised by the DFT.
5.In your published Code of Practice for CCTV camera enforcement on your website, I bring your attention to:

Signs
2.3.5 Relevant camera enforcement signs should be displayed in areas where the system operates. The signs will not define the field of view of the cameras but will advise that CCTV camera enforcement is taking place in the area.


6.A Camera should be an “approved device” in accordance with the Civil Enforcement of Parking Contravention's (Approved Devices)(England) Order 2007.
7.DFT Operational Guidance for Local Authorities: Parking Policy and Enforcement recognizes that camera enforcement is different from enforcement by CEO’s on foot. Paragraph 8.78 states:“Motorists may regard enforcement by cameras as over zealous and authorities should use them sparingly. The Secretary of State recommends that authorities put up signs to tell drivers that they are using cameras to detect contraventions. Signs must comply with TSRDG or have special authorisation from the DFT. The Secretary of State recommends that approved devices are used only where enforcement is difficult or sensitive and CEO enforcement is not practical. Approved Devices should not be used where permits or exceptions (such as residents permits or Blue Badges) not visible to the equipment may apply.” Please supply the DFT signage approval.
8.A public service surveillance (CCTV) Licence is required when operatives are supplied under a contract for services. Under Provisions of the Private Security Industry Act 2001 it is a criminal offense for staff to be contracted as a public space surveillance CCTV operator in England, Scotland and Wales without an SIA Licence. Please supply the licence details of the CEO.
9.In your published Code of Practice for CCTV camera enforcement on your website, it also states in:

2.9.3 “All personnel permitted to operate the System will be selected in accordance with the Employer‟s Standard Recruitment Procedures for personnel who are obliged to work to rules of confidentiality

2.9.4 They will be fully instructed in their responsibilities and role in operating CCTV.

2.9.5 All staff undertaking enforcement of parking and traffic regulations using CCTV cameras must have successfully completed an approved training course. A list of the courses that have been approved for this purpose is contained in Appendix 9.

2.9.6 Training will include: -
all aspects of this Code of Practice
all aspects of Control Room Procedures
all aspects of equipment operation
system audit procedures
issue of PCNs
knowledge of the areas of application in the Borough
the necessary underpinning knowledge of Traffic Law
Health & Safety

2.9.7 Full records of training and of assessments of competence will be kept according to the Employer‟s Standard procedures.

2.9.8 Operators will only be permitted to operate the system unsupervised when they have proved their competence according to the Employer‟s Standard Procedures”.

Please therefore supply me with details of when the CEO completed an approved training course including those listed in 2.9.6 above.

As stated above all comments and help gratefully appreciated :T

Comments

  • newatthis13
    newatthis13 Posts: 37 Forumite
    Just to add that I called the Council this afternoon to check what date I now have until I have to get this appeal in by as the clock stops when you ring up to ask for the video viewing appointment and then resumes again once you've seen it.
    I was told they have no record of my appointment and had to ask me when it was! According to CCTV Code of practice on their website it says:

    2.5.9 The person supervising the viewing must enter full details of the event in the Control Room Records including:–
    time, date and location of viewing
    the serial numbers of all tapes or discs viewed, the sections of those tapes or discs which were viewed (using the start and finish frame numbers) if applicable
    the reasons for viewing each tape or disc
    details of the people present at the viewing.

    I will naturally be adding this to my appeal but would be grateful if someone could tell me the significance of this oversight too.

    Thanks
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 152,614 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 19 July 2013 at 7:01PM
    Hiya,
    Was away yesterday but just saw your pm now. It's pepipoo where you need to post here:

    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

    So have you now got an appointment to view the footage? You'd be looking at how long the car was filmed for and whether the video shows the lines & signs that relate to the contravention (i.e. is it clear on the video that the wheels were on specifically loading-restricted yellow lines because on your PCN it looks too far away to prove the contravention? As well as double yellows there must be painted yellow kerb 'blips', also an upright signs about loading/unloading restrictions; was that upright sign pic taken as part of the same footage or is it a pic from their archive...? You'll know when you watch the video as they've either filmed the sign...or not, & filmed the wheel on the yellow lines...or not.).

    If you can truthfully say so, I would word your appeal that the driver stopped with the intention of 'collecting items' from the nearby premises but NOT 'shopping/purchasing'. When he got out he realised the shop was closing so it was too late, he then immediately left.

    Or if you can't argue that - if the shop isn't the sort of place to collect an item or it's not true - just say he got out and realised the shop was shut, checked the upright traffic signs, realised his back wheel was minimally overhanging a loading restricted double yellow anyway and immediately left.

    And cite the Chief Adjudicator here:

    http://notomob.co.uk/discussions/index.php?topic=867.0

    ''it should not be a contravention to stop briefly to ascertain the times of operation from the upright sign''.

    Although that link gives you lost of 'bullets' about CCTV tickets and why a CEO on foot should have been used, at this stage I say keep your powder dry on that one. You don't want to spoon-feed them the answers as to what they should have done under the Guidance.

    So as regards the CCTV enforcement issue, for now I would simply ask 'why was this PCN enforced by a camera in a smart car?'

    You want them to dig their own hole for later (adjudication) by saying 'because we can'.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 351.2K Banking & Borrowing
  • 253.2K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 453.7K Spending & Discounts
  • 244.2K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 599.3K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 177K Life & Family
  • 257.6K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16.2K Discuss & Feedback
  • 37.6K Read-Only Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.