Party wall dispute, advice pls!!!!!

cyclonebri1

shays_mum wrote: »

Well in an ideal world this would have been great. Fact was that the build was being disputed BEFORE pw was even in place. Give's you an idea of how well the idea of getting them to sign the form would have been
I was just trying to do things by the book, it seems like if it was not this, then it would have been maybe something else

In that case sorry, you have been totally reasonable, now some smartshanks is trying to haul you over the party wall barrel
, you are correct they have it wrong, resist:T:T:T:T:T

shays_mum

Not at all smartshanks aka cyclonebri 1, i appreciate everyones input good or bad!

teneighty

The car has paint splashes on it, apparently when my external wall was being painted. It was on my side of the party wall. The PW surveyor claims to be part of professional institutes. He is the agreed surveyor for the whole job & they appointed the neighbours PW surveyor as she didnot appoint their own.

Which professional institutions? It should be on their letterhead or they should have letters after their name? It could be important regarding complaints procedures.

He cannot be the Agreed Surveyor and appoint other Surveyors. It does not work like that, the agreed surveyor acts alone. Previously you said you have paid for 3 Surveyors so it sounds like there must be one acting for you and one for each of the 2 neighbours. It sounds trivial but could be vital if it turns out they have breached the rules.

With regard to these paint splashes. I am assuming you have a 2 Party Wall Awards signed by you and both of the neighbours? I am assuming it is not clear from these awards how external painting of your side of the wall has become a Party Wall matter therefore you need to ask your surveyor to explain why they are dealing with it? and why it is a Party Wall issue? They cannot just stick their nose in any part of the project just because they feel like it, there are very strict limitations to their responsibilities.

Once you get some answers to that, hopefully you can deal with the damage in the usual way between neighbours without Surveyors on £100/hour racking up the costs.

If that gets sorted out it might be worth looking at the how these surveyors have acted and whether they have performed all their duties in accordance with The Act. If not, it would be worth lodging a complaint to get your fees back. Escalate the complaint to their Professional Institution if they will not cooperate.

cyclonebri1

teneighty wrote: »

Which professional institutions? It should be on their letterhead or they should have letters after their name? It could be important regarding complaints procedures.

He cannot be the Agreed Surveyor and appoint other Surveyors. It does not work like that, the agreed surveyor acts alone. Previously you said you have paid for 3 Surveyors so it sounds like there must be one acting for you and one for each of the 2 neighbours. It sounds trivial but could be vital if it turns out they have breached the rules.

With regard to these paint splashes. I am assuming you have a 2 Party Wall Awards signed by you and both of the neighbours? I am assuming it is not clear from these awards how external painting of your side of the wall has become a Party Wall matter therefore you need to ask your surveyor to explain why they are dealing with it? and why it is a Party Wall issue? They cannot just stick their nose in any part of the project just because they feel like it, there are very strict limitations to their responsibilities.

Once you get some answers to that, hopefully you can deal with the damage in the usual way between neighbours without Surveyors on £100/hour racking up the costs.

If that gets sorted out it might be worth looking at the how these surveyors have acted and whether they have performed all their duties in accordance with The Act. If not, it would be worth lodging a complaint to get your fees back. Escalate the complaint to their Professional Institution if they will not cooperate.

Ok, is this an issue under the party wall act?, in objection to what you say, I don't think it is?????????????

teneighty

Ok, is this an issue under the party wall act?, in objection to what you say, I don't think it is?????????????

I suspect it is not but as I have not been involved with the project and we have very little information it would be unwise to make rash assertions. That will not help the OP.

The fact remains that the Party Wall Surveyors are treating it as such so for the time being the OP has play them at their own game.

shays_mum

teneighty wrote: »

Which professional institutions? It should be on their letterhead or they should have letters after their name? It could be important regarding complaints procedures.
I don't have the letter to hand, but will look asap

He cannot be the Agreed Surveyor and appoint other Surveyors. It does not work like that, the agreed surveyor acts alone. Previously you said you have paid for 3 Surveyors so it sounds like there must be one acting for you and one for each of the 2 neighbours. It sounds trivial but could be vital if it turns out they have breached the rules.
He was hired as my surveyor, one neighbour hired their own & the other dissented, hence him appointing one on her behalf - his colleague. Now the colleague did not do the survey, he did everything & she just signed it off........

With regard to these paint splashes. I am assuming you have a 2 Party Wall Awards signed by you and both of the neighbours? I am assuming it is not clear from these awards how external painting of your side of the wall has become a Party Wall matter therefore you need to ask your surveyor to explain why they are dealing with it? and why it is a Party Wall issue? They cannot just stick their nose in any part of the project just because they feel like it, there are very strict limitations to their responsibilities.
I did ask him why he was involved, he said the neighbour complained to her appointed surveyor, so had to get involved to inform us of the damage done by our builders. As the houseowners, ultimately the responsibility was ours & oh yer the £880 fees for the PW damage notice was also ours to pay :eek:

Once you get some answers to that, hopefully you can deal with the damage in the usual way between neighbours without Surveyors on £100/hour racking up the costs.
I was trying to do that, neighbour was asked for quotations to pass onto the insurance company who are aware what had happened. Suddenly i am presented with a massive bill & told, despite the fact there was indemnity insurance in place we should settle up & claim for the builders & ahem pay their massive fees!!

If that gets sorted out it might be worth looking at the how these surveyors have acted and whether they have performed all their duties in accordance with The Act. If not, it would be worth lodging a complaint to get your fees back. Escalate the complaint to their Professional Institution if they will not cooperate.

I am thinking of having a word with the associations, but fear they will try to bamboozle me or close ranks for one of their own. I suppose nothing ventured, nothing gained!.

Thanks teneighty for the clarity!.

teneighty

I did ask him why he was involved, he said the neighbour complained to her appointed surveyor, so had to get involved to inform us of the damage done by our builders. As the houseowners, ultimately the responsibility was ours & oh yer the £880 fees for the PW damage notice was also ours to pay

That is very unprofessional and both your and the adjoining owners surveyors should have known better. Sadly it is not that uncommon and I have had to rebuke several surveyors for acting for their "clients" rather than following the rules of The Act which requires them to be impartial. The surveyor should have told the neighbour that this is nothing to do with the Party Wall Act and is therefore not covered by the award and they would have to deal directly with you.

You will need to get tough with them and insist that they spell out exactly why the works were dealt with under the award. If the surveyors took it upon themselves to get involved just because the adjoining owner complained that is their mistake and they should not expect you to pay for their time. You should dispute their invoice and refuse payment until they provide you with the information. Also refuse to pay the damages until you receive the required evidence.

If they are members of a Professional Institution they should have a formal complaints procedure and most have an Ombudsman Scheme so complaining is actually much easier than most people think. You just have to be tenacious and know your rights.

Good Luck

jonnyb1978

Part wall act is what it says. To do with walls and walls only.

..."The act is very clear about what owners or tenants may do to their side of a shared wall and what is not allowed. Painting, decorating, and adding shelves to party walls is permitted, while any major construction or changes to the structural components without an agreement from the other party is not allowed...."

I guess painting is outside the party wall act then, so your surveyors can be told where to go!!

Leif

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

Whilst I agree with your sentiment the counter argument would be that you knew there was risk of damage as the car was still there, but allowed the builder to work regardless

See post 22.

cyclonebri1

Leif wrote: »

See post 22.

My point is that by warning the neighbour they had notified of a risk, the onus on the OP is then not to go ahead until that risk is removed.

The fact that the builder has informed his insurer is normal advice from any insurance policy if there is risk of a claim. and so is the challenge to any claim against them.

Anyway, lets hope it doesn't end in claim/counter claim.;)