Apcoa luton airport

The_Slithy_Tove

For goodness sake, why did you call Roxburghe? The only thing you need to say to them (if anything) is that the debt is denied and they must pass it back to their client - nothing more. It's no good negotiating with them, they are not the source of the bogus claim for money.

pmfsaza

So does that mean I have compromised myself? Does it make a difference that I called them.

I have no experience of this type of thing - I have never even received a genuine parking ticket in my life - so its a learnng process.

So are you saying that I should write to them stating that the debt is denied?

bazster

pmfsaza wrote: »

So does that mean I have compromised myself? Does it make a difference that I called them.

I have no experience of this type of thing - I have never even received a genuine parking ticket in my life - so its a learnng process.

So are you saying that I should write to them stating that the debt is denied?

No, you should completely ignore Poxburghe, they are not worth one second of your time.

Don't see how you could've compromised yourself if you don't even know what the fake debt is supposedly for.

Have you posted here because the debt is allegedly due to APCOA? If so, I wouldn't worry about it, they are not very aggressive.

And you still don't have a genuine parking ticket, it's a SCAM.

If you need any more help, please start your own thread.

symbolUK

I have come up with the following response that is mix of some of the responses I have read so far.

One question I have though, the PCN states the "The alleged contravention is a BREACH OF THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF USE of the Airport road infrastructure and signs are clearly displayed throughout the area showing these terms and conditions"

So it's not within the car parks, that doesn't make a difference does it?

Anyway my proposed reply is:

Dear APCOA,
Re fake PCN number xxxxxxxxx

I am writing as I am the registered keeper of vehicle registration number xxx xxxx and was sent a fake parking ticket from yourselves.
First of all, I wish to draw your attention to the following statement contained within your ‘Parking Charge Notice’:-

“....if, after 28 days beginning with the day after that on which this notice is given, the PCN has not been paid in full, and we have not been made aware of the name and a current address for service of the driver, under schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, we do have the right, subject to the requirements of the Act, to recover from the keeper of the vehicle at the time it was parked so much of that amount that remains unpaid.”

This statement makes it clear that APCOA is dealing with its claim in accordance with the requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA). The document that you have (incorrectly) titled as a ‘Parking Charge Notice’ is prescribed under PoFA as a ‘Notice to Keeper’

The requirements of Schedule 4 PoFA are quite clear in that there must be strict compliance with all of its requirements in order to take advantage of the rights granted under that Act to pursue the registered keeper in respect of a driver’s alleged debt.

The BPA Code of Practice supports the need for strict compliance (para 21.5 refers).

APCOA has however failed to comply with the statutory requirements as follows;

Firstly, in regards to paragraph 9(2)(h) of Schedule 4, PoFA 2012. Whilst your ‘Notice to Keeper’ has indicated that you require a payment to be made to APCOA, there is no specific identification of the “Creditor”, who may, in law, be APCOA or some other party. PoFA requires a ‘Notice to Keeper’ to have words to the effect that “The Creditor is….”

The wording of Paragraph 9(2)(h) of Schedule 4 of PoFA does not indicate that the “creditor must be named, but “identified”. To “identify” a “Creditor” a parking company must do more than name that person. The driver is entitled to know the identity of the party with whom he has legally contracted.

This view is supported by the Secretary of State for Transport. He has reserved to himself powers to make regulations to specify not only what must be said in a ‘Notice to Keeper’ but also what evidence should be provided. He says “The purpose of this power is to leave flexibility to mandate the specific evidence which must accompany a notice to keeper if it becomes clear that creditors are attempting to recover parking charges without providing keepers with sufficient evidence to know whether the claim is valid”

Secondly, in addition to APCOA’s failure to specifically identify the “Creditor”, it has failed to provide any evidence that it, or a third party, is entitled to enforce an alleged breach of contractual terms and conditions.

Thirdly, the most serious failure and that which has caused me to submit a formal complaint to the DVLA.

You have failed to comply with paragraph 9.4 of Schedule 4 of the Act in that you failed to give the Notice to Keeper to me within the “relevant period”.

The alleged infringement occurred on the 21st June 2013 and no ‘Notice to Driver’ was issued at the time. The Notice to Keeper is dated 10th July 2013 which is 18 days after the event and too late to ensure delivery within the statutory 14 days prescribed by PoFA.
Your company would have been well aware of these facts when it took the decision to send out the Notice to Keeper. You have misrepresented the legal position in the full knowledge that no such keeper liability existed.

That is an aggravating feature which the DVLA must take into account in determining what sanction to issue to your company.

I therefore expect you to immediately cancel the ‘parking charge’ and inform me, in writing that you have done.

If however, you reject this challenge, then, in accordance with the BPA AOS Code of Practice 22.12, please ensure that you enclose all the required information (including the necessary ‘POPLA code’) so that I may immediately refer this matter (and any further issues that I may subsequently raise) for their adjudication on the matter.

I do not expect to receive a ‘generic’ template response and which fails to address the specific issues that I have raised with you. No further correspondence will be entered into.

Yours sincerely

PRINT NAME DO NO SIGN

The_Slithy_Tove

symbolUK wrote: »

One question I have though, the PCN states the "The alleged contravention is a BREACH OF THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF USE of the Airport road infrastructure and signs are clearly displayed throughout the area showing these terms and conditions"

So it's not within the car parks, that doesn't make a difference does it?

In a way, yes it does. They are claiming that you stopped in breach of the Ts&Cs that you never saw or agreed to. Therefore, you did not park (by any normal definition of the word). They even admit to such by saying "Dropping off /Picking up outside of a designated parking area". Dropping off and picking up are specific exemption for things like double yellow lines on public roads. The expectation would be the same applies on the meaningless double yellow lines painted on private roads.

As you were not parked, they cannot claim what they sent is a Parking Charge, and it's another reason why POFA cannot apply (apart from all the others already mentioned).

You'd still like a POPLA code, though!

symbolUK

Right I see thanks.

I'll send letter as is and keep that point to add should it go to appeal which I doubt it will.

symbolUK

So I just got back from holiday and I have had this response from APCOA:

"Dear xxxxxxxxxx,

Thank you for your letter regarding the Parking Charge Notice.

We have considered fully your explanation of the circumstances and, on this occasion, cancelled the notice.
Therefore no further action is required as the case is now considered closed. Please note that if you receive further Parking Charge Notices under similar circumstances, we will be unable to cancel them."


Now while I'm happy not to have to pay them as you all said I would not and should not and rightly so, this standard dismissive reply is I am sure typical of these companies, I actually wish they had taken this further as I was up for a fight! Tempted to go back pick someone up but I won't lol

Anyway, thanks to all for your help, especially couponmad and I hope my successful appeal spurs on more people to do this!

Coupon-mad

Well done! A great example of a strong first challenge! :T

reados16

Hi, I have also received a letter from our dear friends at Apcoa but as I am not the registered keeper ( I hired the car for a day) does that affect my right to appeal? I received the letter on 12/08/13 but the alleged contravention was on 26/06/13. I have seen quite a few templates for letters does anyone have any suggestions for this instance?:cool:

Coupon-mad

Welcome, but you need to start your own thread because on a parking forum we have to keep cases/dates/details on single threads.

See my signature below for where to click to see all the current threads on page one (read some!). And also you will see the blue 'new thread' button top left of the forum thread index.