Advice needed desperately please - "benefit fraud"

dreamyseahorse

Ok here goes...it's a complicated one but desperate for advice....
My mum was on benefits (ESA at the time plus HB, CTB) back in 2005. Her Mum died and left her a large sum of money. At the time she was drinking heavily and not in a good place, the money scared her and she thought that the best thing to do was not have access to it...in her words she would have pi****d it up the wall. She has four daughters and decided the best thing was to give it to us so we all recieved about £18,000 each and she kept £10,000. .Someone somehow mentioned a deeed of variation so this is what she did. She didnt get any of the money given to three of the daughters. She did however put her youngest daughter who was 10 at the time into a trust account for her when she was 18 but as she had access to this she did end up drinking it.
Anyway back in June 2012 this all caught up with her and her benefits were stopped, the case went to tribunal beginning of this month and the judge basically said he didnt find her story plausable. This was at the beginning of July and we are waiting for the paperwork for this. A criminal case was also scheduled and when we spoke to the solicitor he said she definately had a case as it says she 'dishonestly' failed to inform the appropriate people of this money and whilst it is true she did not this was more 'misguided' (or in my words stupid) rather than dishonest....this case is now being heard by a jury but not until October....
She is seeking advice from the CAB throughout this time and they are very nice but we dont seem to be making any progress...
She has been surviving on child benefit until now and loans from family but now her youngest child has turned 18 so this has stopped and she has NOTHING coming in,,,,
I have had breast cancer over the last year and have been unemployed, I have spent all the savings I had about £2500 to help her out but am now BROKE, another sister has been paying her utility bills but again cant keep this up, the 18 year old is not in a position to help and another who is 21 is looking at putting her up in her rented flat were she lives with her young son.
My mum owes £4000 rent and has been given a notice of eviction so will be effectively homeless from 1st of September. She has been told whilst the case is still ongoing then she cannot claim benefits but this is just dragging and dragging on....
Anyway what I am asking is does anyone know how/what/anything we can do? I have seen something about 1st strike rule and surely at the very worst she will get found 'guilty' and therefore this will be the 1st strike? But there is a chance that she can overturn this....she has not had benefits for 15 months now, how long can it carry on? If she needs to repay this money then we will try start to do this (over many, many years) but without money coming in this is impossible...she has been sober now for 18 months but is right on the edge....
PLease, please if you have any advice then please let me know, we are all at our wits end....THANK YOU!!!!

jacques_chirac

As a family you had £64,000. Surely you have not spent it all?

I fail to see what advice you want. Your mother intentionally deprived herself of capital and failed to advise of a change in circumstances. She needs to accept her punishment, and the rest of the family need to find a way to support her financially.

voucher

get a solicitor

tomtom256

They will probably still see her as having this capital so is unlikely to get any benefits.

Check her letters as it will advise of this decision.

DM's generally see £10-12k as average spending for a year so do the math.

Housing_Benefit_Officer

There is no advice I could give. She gave away £64k. She kept £10k and failed to declare any of this to anyone. She has a solicitor then she would need to follow his advice and throw herself to the mercy of the Judge during her fraud trial.

Housing_Benefit_Officer

Thinking about it she should ask the local authority if they can use the Diminution of Capital rules to offset the overpayment with what her expenditure on rent would have been.

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/hbopg-calc-op.pdf

3.190
3.204

That would be possibly her only pathway to get her Housing Benefit reinstated.

dreamyseahorse

As a family you had £64,000. Surely you have not spent it all?

I fail to see what advice you want. Your mother intentionally deprived herself of capital and failed to advise of a change in circumstances. She needs to accept her punishment, and the rest of the family need to find a way to support her financially

She did not intentionally do it...we were all very young at the time and thought she had done what she needed to as did she (she had lived abroad for a long toime and had no knowledge of benefits system so really was not fleecing the system....she was intending to get a job (so her intention was to get off benefits anyway)and put herself through rehab but kept relapsing......you obviously know nothing about alcoholics so thank you kindly not to judge....I had £18,000 EIGHT years ago and used this to pay my way through uni, unless you did not note I am off work as i had CANCER and will be back at work hopefully in SEptember so not exactly in a position to help, have spent my three months sick pay I got on her rent.,,, we are all doing what we can do to support her financially
Your jundgemental comments dont help so thank you please to not comment, I am asking for advice...

jacques_chirac

dreamyseahorse wrote: »

As a family you had £64,000. Surely you have not spent it all?

I fail to see what advice you want. Your mother intentionally deprived herself of capital and failed to advise of a change in circumstances. She needs to accept her punishment, and the rest of the family need to find a way to support her financially

She did not intentionally do it...we were all very young at the time and thought she had done what she needed to as did she (she had lived abroad for a long toime and had no knowledge of benefits system so really was not fleecing the system....she was intending to get a job (so her intention was to get off benefits anyway)and put herself through rehab but kept relapsing......you obviously know nothing about alcoholics so thank you kindly not to judge....I had £18,000 EIGHT years ago and used this to pay my way through uni, unless you did not note I am off work as i had CANCER and will be back at work hopefully in SEptember so not exactly in a position to help, have spent my three months sick pay I got on her rent.,,, we are all doing what we can do to support her financially
Your jundgemental comments dont help so thank you please to not comment, I am asking for advice...

I did not make judgment, I posted facts.

Who told her she could/ should make a deed of variation? Did they also tell her she did not need to declare the change in circumstances? Ignorance of the system is no defence - every award letter will have stated that she must declare any change in circumstance.

Housing_Benefit_Officer

jacques_chirac wrote: »

I did not make judgment, I posted facts.

Who told her she could/ should make a deed of variation? Did they also tell her she did not need to declare the change in circumstances? Ignorance of the system is no defence - every award letter will have stated that she must declare any change in circumstance.

Pointless raking over what she should have done - this is 2013 she is facing a fraud trial and possible imprisonment later this year.

Diminution of capital rules are the only route I can see in getting HB reinstated.

jacques_chirac

Housing_Benefit_Officer wrote: »

Pointless raking over what she should have done - this is 2013 she is facing a fraud trial and possible imprisonment later this year.

Diminution of capital rules are the only route I can see in getting HB reinstated.

The trial will 'rake over' what she should have done. Saying 'someone somehow mentioned a deed of variation' is not going to be sufficient, they need to establish who told them this, whether they were in a position to be relied upon, and whether that conversation/ advice can now be verified.

princessdon

She committed fraud - she pays the price, imprisonment I hope where she can sober up.