Payment methods when Buying from Germany/Austria

Tirian

Wig wrote: »

Just as you made a sweeping statement about how secure European post (except Italian) is compared to ours with no evidence. You also ignored the fact that both methods have to go through a UK sorting office.


You miss the point of this thread - to save money - it is cheaper to not allow auctionchex to do the exchange rate conversion. Within this thread I am exploring *all* options (no matter how hair brained they may seem at first) to see which one comes out top.

I didn't miss the point of the thread. I merely stated my preferred method. Since I would only use Auctionchex for transactions of under £40-£50 (probably less) the money I would save by sending them cash isn't really that significant - especially once you've factored in postage costs.

I commented on the European post on the basis of my experience. I've had a far higher proportion of UK letters/packages 'lost' than international ones.

And although post within and without the UK will both go through a UK sorting office, the international post will spend considerably less time in the UK system - it gets sorted out almost immediately and sent straight to the international transit hubs. A letter/package going to a UK address spend more time in the UK system and go through many more stages of sorting and despatch so your argument that it is automatically at least as risky does not hold water.

Wig

Tirian wrote: »

I commented on the European post on the basis of my experience. I've had a far higher proportion of UK letters/packages 'lost' than international ones.

Hardly a representative sample though is it.

And although post within and without the UK will both go through a UK sorting office, the international post will spend considerably less time in the UK system - it gets sorted out almost immediately and sent straight to the international transit hubs. A letter/package going to a UK address spend more time in the UK system and go through many more stages of sorting and despatch so your argument that it is automatically at least as risky does not hold water.

You yourself said earlier that distance and time travelled had no bearing on things going missing

"As for cash going missing in the post, I'm not convinced by your assumption that there is a correlation between length of time in the postal system / distance travelled by post and the likelihood of it going missing. I'd be interested to see evidence of that"

dazza.mk

Wig wrote: »

If I understand that, you are referring to

"2. With effect from 1 July 2003 at the latest, charges levied by an institution in respect of cross-border credit transfers in euro up to EUR 12500 shall be the same as the charges levied by the same institution in respect of corresponding credit transfers in euro transacted within the Member State in which the establishment of that institution executing the cross-border transfer is located."

And you are pointing out that IBAN transfers in countries like Germany/Austria are free of charge, hence no charge may be levied.

So if Lloyds charge £10 for an EMI, and if it is possible to select shared charges (on an EMI), you are saying I would be charged £5 and the payee would be charged nothing? If this were true the cost to me would be £5 + exchange rates. I expect what the rule means is that when sharing the sender pays his end at his bank and the reciever pays their end at their bank (which would be zero). And logically if the sender opted to select "pay all charges" then the sender would be charged for both ends but the German end would be zero anyway.

I also thought of something else, I have Barclays Platinum account, which gives me free CHAPS transfers. So could I insist they give me free EEC transfers? Or would they argue that they have a standard fee for CHAPS within UK and therfore they are allowed to charge even me for an EEC transfer.

No as long as you send the payment in Euros, use the recipients BIC & IBAN and select shared charges then the only costs you should pay should be the same as a UK Bank Transfer (ie free) up to 50K Euros, some UK Bnaks are a bit 'sticky about this however. ie Lloyds payments go via a third party (a wholly owned subsidiary) which charges Lloyds a fee and therefore the final consumer.

However recently when I've made NatWest relay payments they have amended their forms to specify EU payments MUST be made using BIC & IBAN rather than national country codes so theyt must be catching on!

Tirian

Wig wrote: »

Hardly a representative sample though is it.

You yourself said earlier that distance and time travelled had no bearing on things going missing

For precisely the reasons I have just given! An item may travel 800 miles in Europe and take 5 days, but if it was posted from central London to central Berlin (for example) it will quite possibly pass through a lot less hands than something posted first class from Ayrshire to Wales that only takes a day.

You're the one that postulated a correlation between distance travelled and risk of disappearance. All I'm asking for is some evidence!

Wig

Dazza,

Thank you for bringing this post up, because this I think is important and needs to be discussed fully.

OK so the rules say the charges (for EU transfers) should be the same as for corresponding internal (within the member state) euros transfers. The important word there being "Euros" & "corresponding" we generally transfer GBP internally, so finding a bank who transfers euros internally (Free of charge) is surely going to be a tall order?

I also found this
This Regulation shall also apply to cross-border payments made in the currency of another Member State when the latter notifies the Commission of its decision to extend the Regulation's application to its currency. The notification shall be published in the Official Journal by the Commission. The extension shall take effect 14 days after the said publication.

Which suggests the rules also apply to payments in GBP providing the UK government of UK has extended the regulations to cover our currency........ Does anyone know if the UK gov has done this?

The UK banks want EU/international payments to be done with IBAN/BIC so they can levy a charge because they don't use this method internally. :mad:

Also what is the relevance of selecting "shared charges" if the service is free in both countries internally then the service of cross border should be free whether selecting "shared charges" or not?

Wig

Tirian wrote: »

For precisely the reasons I have just given! An item may travel 800 miles in Europe and take 5 days, but if it was posted from central London to central Berlin (for example) it will quite possibly pass through a lot less hands than something posted first class from Ayrshire to Wales that only takes a day.

You're the one that postulated a correlation between distance travelled and risk of disappearance. All I'm asking for is some evidence!

I merely pointed out to you that when it suited your purposes you said

As for cash going missing in the post, I'm not convinced by your assumption that there is a correlation between length of time in the postal system / distance travelled by post and the likelihood of it going missing.

And then again when it suited your purposes you said

And although post within and without the UK will both go through a UK sorting office, the international post will spend considerably less time in the UK system Thus you were saying "less likely to go missing"

Those two quotes are contradictory.

Asking me for evidence for what you know full well is only an opinion held by me is a tad silly don't you think?

dazza.mk

Wig wrote: »

Which suggests the rules also apply to payments in GBP providing the UK government of UK has extended the regulations to cover our currency........ Does anyone know if the UK gov has done this?

Afraid not! although the Swedes have!

Regulation (EC) No 2560/2001 of 19.12.2001

Extension Swedish Kronor
Article 9 of the Regulation stipulates that, should the Member State concerned so decide, certain provisions may also apply to payments in Swedish kronor, Danish kroner or pound sterling. The Swedish authorities have decided to extend the Regulation to the Swedish krona (Communication of the Commission, OJ C 165 of 11.7.2002).

You are correct I'd misread that part of the treaty as we didn't opt-in we don't get free transfers to Europe as there are no free local transfers in Euros only Free transfers from Europe as long as BIC/IBAN, Shared charges and Euros are used.

greeneye

Um acording to auctionchex's payment form:

They don't allow you to send cash in euro's as a payment method for your seller (only dollars and sterling).

And they don't accept payment for their services in cash via a letter either (only cheque/money order).

Unless eddy has told you something different???

Wig

greeneye wrote: »

Unless eddy has told you something different???

He did say it would be ok.