I think my Section 21 is illegal.

Robsia

I have been issued with a Section 21. I have gone through all the legal bumf to check it out, and I am pretty sure it is illegal.

I have contacted my local CAB and they have sent me a lengthy email with lots of quoted paras. I pushed for a simple 'yes or no' answer were they were a bit cagey, but I think she was agreeing with me.

Can someone please give me a simple yes or no answer.

Dates:
AST began 27/12/2012
Length - six months. No end date given but I assume will be midnight on 26/6/2013, therefore making 27/6/2013 the first date of the periodic tenancy. I pay rent on 27th of every month.

S21 dated 27/6/2013, postmarked that evening.
S21 RECEIVED by me - 29/6/2013

S21 states:
Date of Expiry- after 27th August 2013
Dated: 27th June 2013

Also, it is a 21(1)(b)

Now, I think that because it was issued on the first day of the periodic tenancy (a) it should have been a 21(4)(a) and (b) the date of expiry should be the 26th September.

I can't do an online calculator as they only operate on dates in the future, not in the past, but if I do one adding a couple of months to all the dates, it confirms my suspicions.

Yorkie1

I'm not sufficiently au fait with the particular subsections of s.21, but you are right that it does not give the correct expiry date.

Service by first class post is deemed served two business days after posting. And in any event the notice is dated into the new tenancy period (your dates for the tenancy period are correct).

The s.21 notice is not illegal (this refers to criminal activity); it is simply not valid.

What do you hope to achieve from this situation? Eventually the LL is likely to get the notice right and you will have to leave.

ValHaller

S21 is invalid. Keep you hat on it. If they get their act together, they could get one out for 27 July giving you until September 27. But if you don't tell them, you could still be there on 27 August and they might not find out until you reply to court papers. They might get it right by 27 October in which case you will have to 27 December.

Don't look at it as an opportunity to stretch out your tenancy - look on it as an opportunity to look around and when you see something you like, terminate the tenancy by mutual agreement with the LL.

Mr_Pitiful

It might be valid if there is a savings clause on the notice, something like : 'Possession is required at the end of the period of the tenancy which expires next after a period of two calendar months from the service of the notice upon the tenant'. If there is a clause like that, they can get the date wrong and still rely on the notice.

thesaint

Mr_Pitiful wrote: »

It might be valid if there is a savings clause on the notice, something like : 'Possession is required at the end of the period of the tenancy which expires next after a period of two calendar months from the service of the notice upon the tenant'. If there is a clause like that, they can get the date wrong and still rely on the notice.

If that is the case, it would expire "after" the 26th September 2013.
Personally, I think a judge would throw it out.

Mr_Pitiful

thesaint wrote: »

If that is the case, it would expire "after" the 26th September 2013.
Personally, I think a judge would throw it out.

It has been argued before that an incorrect date with a savings clause makes the notice invalid, but the court of appeal didn't agree.

http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2009/763.html&query=hussain+v+bradford&method=all

Robsia

Mr_Pitiful wrote: »

It might be valid if there is a savings clause on the notice, something like : 'Possession is required at the end of the period of the tenancy which expires next after a period of two calendar months from the service of the notice upon the tenant'. If there is a clause like that, they can get the date wrong and still rely on the notice.

Thank you all.

There is no clause like this on the notice.

What do you hope to achieve from this situation? Eventually the LL is likely to get the notice right and you will have to leave.

The only thing I hope to gain is a little negotiation room. The landlord has put the house up for sale and I think he wants me out PDQ. Also, we have a dog, which I DID tell the letting agents (and I have the email to prove it), but the LL claims he didn't know, and he didn't want a dog in the house.

If the notice is invalid, then I may play ball and move in August IF we can find somewhere suitable, and IF he can offer me a sweetener, say relocation costs, as I didn't want to move and hadn't budgeted for a house move again so soon. I had been led to believe that this would be a long-term let and we love the house, so I am gutted, to say the least.

At the very least, it gives us a little more time to find somewhere suitable without having to worry about being successfully evicted. I don't know if he is aware it is invalid as it was issued by the letting agents, who SHOULD know. I'm imagining a conversation like this:

LA: We can issue it, but it will be invalid and if you try to evict her the court will throw it out.
LL: I don't care. Issue it anyway. Hopefully she won't figure it out and she'll leave.

Thank you all for your help

thesaint

Mr_Pitiful wrote: »

It has been argued before that an incorrect date with a savings clause makes the notice invalid, but the court of appeal didn't agree.

http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2009/763.html&query=hussain+v+bradford&method=all

The OP has also received the "wrong" Sec 21 notice.

I have known judges to throw out correct notices, never mind incorrect ones.
If I was the landlord, I would not pay £175.00 on the strength of this notice.

tim123456789

thesaint wrote: »

If that is the case, it would expire "after" the 26th September 2013.
Personally, I think a judge would throw it out.

bear in mind that this works both ways

It is just as likely that a tenant will be unsure of the correct date to use and wants to rely on such a clause in the same way that a LL might.

and it the rule were that it doesn't work for the LL, it wouldn't work for T either.

tim

Robsia

The letting agents now keep emailing me and texting me to ask if I understand the section 21 and to confirm that I will be vacating the property on the 27th August.

I have an ASD and this is making me very anxious. I'm actually shaking now I got the latest one.

So far I've just ignored them.

Does this constitute harassment? Or can they do this?

I know damn well that I don't have to leave, and so should they.

Herbalus

I wouldn't consider it harassment yet - if you're not replying to their messages they might simply believe that you haven't received them or haven't understood them.

How far are you on your search for new accommodation? As the 27th has now passed for June, the earliest expiry date of a valid s21 is 2 months after the next 27th (august), which means october 27th. That's nearly 3 months.

I would personally let the estate agent know that you consider the s21 to be invalid, and that you won't be leaving the property on 27th august, and that gives you nearly 3 more months to find a new property.

I don't think that ignoring the estate agent is going to help or stop them bothering you, because they might well be thinking that you are leaving in less than a month. If they are making plans on this assumption they could get angry.