uPVC French doors too small not sealing ?

demonted

I'm a Housing Association tenant; During March last year the Association fitted replacement uPVC French doors.
Since the doors were fitted and when closed, I've endured a constant draught through the doors plus outside traffic noise.

Various adjustment by HA maintenance staff have failed to rectify the issue.

However, I've recently discovered that the top of both French Doors fail to reach the external weather strip/seal; there's a gap of 30mm between the top of the doors and the very top of the internal frame.!

With the doors closed and locked, I can post a letter through the top of both French Doors.

Since discovering this, I've measured various uPVC Doors and noticed that the outer internal edge of the door overlaps the internal weather strip/seal/frame by at least 10-13mm all around, yet my doors don't do this.

My doors; at the top, the overlap is non existent, at the bottom the overlap is 15mm. At either side, the overlap ranges from 3 -6mm.

I've explained this to the HA and their maintenance staff, which they tend to ignore and claim " You no nothink about no windows."

So, my question; does anyone know of an Industry Standard in regard to the sealing capacity of uPVC French Doors/windows.

Such as; a recommended nationalised standard of overlap of the external edge of the doors to the weather strip/seal.

I've already enquired with FENSA and Building Regs Dept of the local council, who although very helpful are unable to intervene.

thebaldwindowfitter

the doors need toeing and heeling they have not been installed correctly

Susan1942

I am posting my question here as it is regarding uPVC windows. I am having them installed at the moment. Due to finish tomorrow.
The old windows were wood and 4 of the windows are arched My Curtains were fitted right on the frame using Velcro stapled on to the top of window and then the curtains fitted. My problem is how do I now hang the curtains. Will Velcro stick to uPVC I asked the window fitter today and he said he does not know if I can use it or not.
He can drill the windows to put the hook to hold the tie backs.
I am wondering if anyone can give me any advice and if there is anything out there that will do the job.

Thank you

Sue

demonted

Yeah, I know an adjustment of some kind is required but my concern is in regard to the amount of adjustment required.

Should the French Doors be adjusted to ensure the gap at the top is reduced, there is only an allowance of 07mm as anymore will reduce the effectiveness of seal at the bottom of the doors.

Currently the seal around the sides of both doors, varies from 3-6mm, so again, very little scope for adjustment.

Of the various uPVC doors I've measured, of different styles; Front doors, French Doors etc at friends, neighbours and relatives homes; the external edge of the doors tends to overlap the weather strip/seals by 10-13mm.

It's for this reason I wondered whether there's an Industry Standard which stipulates the acceptable overlap which ensures the doors seal and fit the frame correctly.

demonted

Hello Sue,

I wouldnt suggest drilling holes into the uPVC frame to hang the curtains as the Window Frame Manufacturer could use this as a reason or excuse to not honour their warranty.

I suggest you ask the window frame manufacture/supplier to confirm in writing that the drilling of holes into the uPVC window frames to hang/fix/secure the curtain track or tie backs, will not void the warranty.

Susan1942

Thank you for that. They are a local firm and I live in a over 55's development. It is leasehold and this is a conservation area I live in Harrogate and until now permission anything other wooden sash windows.was the only choice
Now the uPVC have been allowed but still the exact same sash.
I live on the top floor and these windows are dormer The curtains have to go up against the window.
While this is leasehold previously we had to pay just for the glass Now they came up with wording in the lease which makes responsible for the whole window. My windows were rotten so no option .,
I will speak to the owner of the company today. Thanks again

Sue

demonted

Hello again Sue,
Sorry to go off topic but I believe a Lease or Tenancy agreement, once initially accepted and signed, can not be changed or amended without agreement by all parties.

I've been told, that if an agreement to new terms can not be reached, the leaseholder has to apply for a court order to make a final decision after hearing as to why the amendment/changes to the contract/lease are required.

So, if you're unhappy with the new responsibility for the repair and maintenance of the new windows being placed on yourself, I don't believe you are legally obliged to accept such terms if it did not form part of the original terms of the lease.

Its worth considering and maybe make further enquiries.

Susan1942

THank you This story goes back to about 4-5 years ago. It had been the situation that people who live here had to pay for the glass. At that time I questioned as in my opinion a window without glass is not a window.
My daughter who has a law degree and works in the liability field asked me to get the lease and see what it said there. They provided me with this and Julie said better not make a fuss as according to the Managing Agent sent to me

C) The windows doors and their respective frames

The development was built in 1989 work completed around 1991 Basically it is my fault as I opened a can of worms. That said I had the window mentioned was absolutely rotten and it took me over 2 years to get the work done. At that time I paid for the glass and I think Goldsborough got their lawyers to look at the lease.

I spoke to the owner of the company who are fitting my windows 10 year guarantee He told me that as they would drill the holes in the window frame and it is covered. They have still to fit new glass in 3 velux windows where the seal has gone.

Thank you so much for taking the time to look at this issue for me. When I came here in 1998 I was paying £1800 a year for maintainence this has now risen to just under £4000! A fortune ! Currently there are a number of apartments for sale but sales are difficult and in the opinion of most of us who live here consider that it is the high maintainesce which is why they are not selling. Any that do sell are to very elderly who are probably not that concerned about the charges. They often live here for a year or two and then go into care. I was 56 when I moved here not really looking for an apartment with the facilities but this one was on the market with a wonderful view of the famous Harrogate Stray.
2 Years ago they doubled the ground rent as apparently they can do this after 20 years. We tried too buy the freehold some years ago and having put the necessary funds etc the night before this was happening one person pulled out so that was that. We just had the desired no with a few of us putting in more units to allow this to happen. This was some 12 years ago. So we are sitting with no great clout!
Once again many many thanks for all your advice

Sue

demonted

Thank you for your very thorough explanation.
Looks like the Management Agency and or the leaseholder have cunningly used a clause to relinquish their responsibility.

!However, such a clause is understandable, otherwise if there was no such clause, property owners within your development could insists !the Agency/leaseholder renewed all the Window and Frames every ten years, at a huge cost.

Also, the Agency/leasholder have excluded the glass from the lease to relinqish their responsibility towards the breakage of the glass, for whatever the reason.

All the above terms would normally form part of the initial lease, if such terms are not acceptable, they should be raised!prior to signing.

However, should any amendment be made to a lease or tenancy after signing, the changes must be agreed and accepted by all parties other wise a court order is required.

I was told this by the legal team of a charity/organisation called Shelter.

In regard to the window frames being drilled to hang the curtains, ensure that the confirmation giving by the owner of the window company is backed up in writing. !!It may seem not so important now, but from my own experience, it can and will make all the difference at a later date, especially if making a warranty claim in 5/6/7 years time.

As for my original post which was hijacked by Sue; today my Housing Association have agreed to refit a new uPVC unit.

Let's hope this fourth set of French Doors are finally fitted correctly and resolved my issue.

Susan1942

Thank you once again for the great advice. I AM SO SORRY for high jacking your thread. It was just that I put in search for anything to do with uPVC products and it just happened that yours came up.
I am glad to hear that your problems are being resolved and hopefully this time around it will be successful.

The hooks are up as well as a piece of timber which holds up a Roman blind in my dining room. I now need to buy velcro and get the other 4 window curtains up

Thanks again and I trust that all will be well for you.

Sue

demonted

Hey, there's no need to apologise or explaind Sue, my comment in regard to hijacking my post was only a bit of fun.

After all, it did get to the point where I was advising you in regard to your question rather than received replies to my initial question.

Not to worry.

I'm pleased you've resolved your curtain hanging dilemma.


Also, must not forget "thebaldwindowfitter" thanks for your input too.