Unfair dismissal dressed as redundancy

Sherlock_Holmes

Hi all, thank you for the varied responses. The meeting with my MD didn't go ahead today as his wife was rushed into hospital last night.

Firstly I'd like to set the record straight, I have been in sales for 17 years now and fully understand the "you are only as good as yesterdays figures" mantra. It's for this reason why I was particularly difficult to convince that moving to this role was the right decision for me. I took 4 months of the company pestering me to start with them before I agreed to work for them.

I didn't explain in my OP that the profession I am involved in is the most difficult market to crack that I know of. Selling adaptation equipment i.e stairlifts, ramps, through floor lifts e.t.c into councils establishments is very tough these days as budgets have been reduced dramatically over the last 5 years and those once responsible for making these procurement decisions are no longer holding the purse strings. It is quite possible to take 6-12 months for a supplier to get on a approved list to supply and even this does guarantee you a large flow of business. That said price is still key and if you don't have enough margin in your product and the ability to discount you are snookered. Also councils are very much creatures of habit when it comes to their purchasing habits, they very much don't like to change the way they do things if it involves doing some work. This was explained at length to my potential employer; but they still pursued me until I said yes. They were completely aware of what was involved.

I indeed got many opportunities to quote for work with a variety of different councils, but because of low profit margins I was unable to quote low enough to win the business. A manufacture should be achieving 50-60% profit which then allows plenty of adjustment for different account; but if you've got 20-25% discounting is nearly impossible. This was always known by the company, but they neglected to tell me. This is why I'm so angry.

Again to answer some of the posters on here, I did as much research into my position as possible all except delve into their annual accounts.

I agree from a point in law I may not have much to go on, but from a principle point of view I fully intend to use what I can to get "something" to keep me an d my family afloat until I find further employment.

Johno100

So the OP has gone from a Senior Manager in his opening post to a stair lift salesman, some people do like to overstate their own importance.:rotfl:

ILW

Sherlock_Holmes wrote: »

Hi all, thank you for the varied responses. The meeting with my MD didn't go ahead today as his wife was rushed into hospital last night.

Firstly I'd like to set the record straight, I have been in sales for 17 years now and fully understand the "you are only as good as yesterdays figures" mantra. It's for this reason why I was particularly difficult to convince that moving to this role was the right decision for me. I took 4 months of the company pestering me to start with them before I agreed to work for them.

I didn't explain in my OP that the profession I am involved in is the most difficult market to crack that I know of. Selling adaptation equipment i.e stairlifts, ramps, through floor lifts e.t.c into councils establishments is very tough these days as budgets have been reduced dramatically over the last 5 years and those once responsible for making these procurement decisions are no longer holding the purse strings. It is quite possible to take 6-12 months for a supplier to get on a approved list to supply and even this does guarantee you a large flow of business. That said price is still key and if you don't have enough margin in your product and the ability to discount you are snookered. Also councils are very much creatures of habit when it comes to their purchasing habits, they very much don't like to change the way they do things if it involves doing some work. This was explained at length to my potential employer; but they still pursued me until I said yes. They were completely aware of what was involved.

I indeed got many opportunities to quote for work with a variety of different councils, but because of low profit margins I was unable to quote low enough to win the business. A manufacture should be achieving 50-60% profit which then allows plenty of adjustment for different account; but if you've got 20-25% discounting is nearly impossible. This was always known by the company, but they neglected to tell me. This is why I'm so angry.

Again to answer some of the posters on here, I did as much research into my position as possible all except delve into their annual accounts.

I agree from a point in law I may not have much to go on, but from a principle point of view I fully intend to use what I can to get "something" to keep me an d my family afloat until I find further employment.

Are the Northern branch that are doing OK selling at different prices to yours?

zzzLazyDaisy

OP you have not answered my questions about the change to your contractual notice period. I am therefore presuming, from the information given in your first post, that you accepted the post on the basis that the initial 6 months notice period would be reduced to one month after you had completed 12 months service. If that is a fair assessment, then your only contractual notice entitlement is one month. Note, this does not necessarily mean that you will leave with a lump sum equivalent to one month's salary, as the employer may (and is entitled to) require you to work your notice.

I can see no reason in law why the employer should give you any form of severance package, but they may take a pragmatic approach and be willing to make a payment to you - in which case be prepared that they may wish to protect the company by requiring the settlement to be recorded on a compromise agreement - this is normal practice and prevents you from subsequently making a claim to a tribunal.

jacques_chirac

MisterMan wrote: »

It's standard negotiation practise to start bartering from an unreasonable amount, in order to get a satisfactory outcome.

It is only standard where the employee has something to bargain with.

Sherlock_Holmes

Johno100 wrote: »

So the OP has gone from a Senior Manager in his opening post to a stair lift salesman, some people do like to overstate their own importance.:rotfl:

There was no mention of me selling stair-lifts cherub, I think you need to go back to watching Jezza Kyle and wind yer neck in. Trolling is neither helpful or clever.

Sherlock_Holmes

ILW wrote: »

Are the Northern branch that are doing OK selling at different prices to yours?

The Northern company has levelled out at £768,000 which has been achieved over 12 years of operation with a team of 15. There costs are less because their fitting team are based locally and they are able to respond quicker than I am. All of their accounts were gained in the earlier days(Pre recession) and because the stock is reusable a lot of their accounts are locked in.

I on the other hand did not have that luxury, starting up in the biggest down turn in recent history. Higher costs(fitting arranged from north east, meaning a 4 hour journey both ways, overnight stays fuel and other associated costs) no stock being used by customers so no loyalty. This was all discussed before I was employed.

Sherlock_Holmes

Sherlock_Holmes wrote: »

The Northern company has levelled out at £768,000 which has been achieved over 12 years of operation with a team of 15. There costs are less because their fitting team are based locally and they are able to respond quicker than I am. All of their accounts were gained in the earlier days(Pre recession) and because the stock is reusable a lot of their accounts are locked in.

I on the other hand did not have that luxury, starting up in the biggest down turn in recent history. Higher costs(fitting arranged from north east, meaning a 4 hour journey both ways, overnight stays fuel and other associated costs) no stock being used by customers so no loyalty. This was all discussed before I was employed.

In my first year I achieved £120,000 on my own against the odds, so I feel this was a pretty good result considering the above.

Torry_Quine

Sherlock_Holmes wrote: »

There was no mention of me selling stair-lifts cherub, I think you need to go back to watching Jezza Kyle and wind yer neck in. Trolling is neither helpful or clever.

Really.

Sherlock_Holmes wrote: »

I didn't explain in my OP that the profession I am involved in is the most difficult market to crack that I know of. Selling adaptation equipment i.e stairlifts, ramps, through floor lifts e.t.c into councils establishments is very tough these days as budgets have been reduced dramatically over the last 5 years and those once responsible for making these procurement decisions are no longer holding the purse strings.

Sherlock_Holmes

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

OP you have not answered my questions about the change to your contractual notice period. I am therefore presuming, from the information given in your first post, that you accepted the post on the basis that the initial 6 months notice period would be reduced to one month after you had completed 12 months service. If that is a fair assessment, then your only contractual notice entitlement is one month. Note, this does not necessarily mean that you will leave with a lump sum equivalent to one month's salary, as the employer may (and is entitled to) require you to work your notice.

I can see no reason in law why the employer should give you any form of severance package, but they may take a pragmatic approach and be willing to make a payment to you - in which case be prepared that they may wish to protect the company by requiring the settlement to be recorded on a compromise agreement - this is normal practice and prevents you from subsequently making a claim to a tribunal.

There was no contract drawn up for my first years employment and after that period. The conditions were included in the job offer. Thanks for your help.