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Landlord and tenant dispute - need advice!
Mp1987
Posts: 3 Newbie
In feb 2012 me and my husband and our 3 year old moved into a property through a private landlord. When we moved in there were certain aspects of the property that were an issue to us, mainly cosmetic stuff. We discussed with the landlord the possibility of them giving us a rent free period and we would pay to make the property nice and safe (shutters hanging off outside). They agreed and we said we would discuss it once we had got settled in. We were also told that there was a problem with a washing machine in the property and that we should get rid of it as it was leaking. We were also told that although the agreement said 12 months they never hold anyone to it. Given all this we felt happy that we had made a good choice in moving there.
Within our first two days we had to move out due to ants being in every cupboard in the kitchen. We paid to out some ant traps down and stayed with my parents until they worked. Then the cooker broke and although it was replaced it took two weeks to get it sorted. Then the hot water tap in the bathroom stopped working. Then while we were on holiday my dad visited the property to find out that the boiler had flooded. He got an engineer to look at it and for some reason at that point the landlords partner turned up at the property and stated that she couldn't remember when it was last checked. This was in may.
Prior to this the landlord partner had taken to randomly turning up and the house even wandering into the back garden. We had an agreement that we would cut the grass and she would deal with the shrubbery. In August our lawn mower broke at the beginning of the month and we were waiting until pay day to replace it. Within three days the landlords partner came to the house to ask me when it would be cut and I advised her of the situation with the mower and when we would get it done by. The next day she rang my husband at work to ask him when he was going to do it. And the next day she turned up at my parents house to say she had been 'looking for' my husband and asked him again when he was going to cut the grass.
By this point we were seriously fed up of being harassed so we wrote them a letter outlining the problems we had had and the repairs still to be carried out including a problem with the fridge not working and the bath room tap and the flags to the front of the property that were damaged prior to us ,oving in Aldo there was a mould problem developing. We said that we really just wanted to leave the tenancy as we weren't happy with the condition of the property. We also pointed out that there was no gas safety certificate and we did not have any details of where our deposit was protected.
We received a solicitors letter saying that they were unhappy with us for the grass thing, that there had been complaints about domestic rubbish and so they were happy for us to leave as long as we didn't bring any claim against them. It said something like 'as our client is similarly unhappy with you he is willing to let you leave the tenancy early and return your deposit in full providing that you pay your rent up until you leave and you cause no damage. Please inform us when you intend to vacate the property.'
We wrote back to the solicitor to say the only part of their letter we accept is that we can end the tenancy early however in the meantime we still want to know where the deposit is protected.
We heard nothing. That was september. So we started looking for alternative properties in the area. We eventually found somewhere to live in November. The letting agent approached the landlord for a reference which we later found out he ignored it and therefore hindered us being able to move out. After explaining to the letting agent the situation they were sympathetic to our situation and as we had rented from this letting agent in the past they allowed us to use and older reference in combination with a bank statement showing we had paid our rent. So in the end we ended up giving only 6 days notice that we were moving out because it was getting so close to Christmas that if we waited any longer we would have to either pay two rents or lose out on the property potentially. Plus as far as we were concerned the tenancy was over as we had been given permission to leave when we found somewhere appropriate.
We went to see the landlord to discuss the return of the deposit and handing back keys. He told us he saw no reason why we couldn't have the deposit back.
We then received a phone call from him the day before we were moving out, he was saying he wasn't giving us our deposit back because we are leaving the tenancy early. So of course we realised that the deposit wasn't protected which I already knew because I had checked online and called all of the schemes.
We cleaned the property from top to bottom on the day we moved out and it was in a much better state than when we moved in. We went to drop the keys off but he wasn't in so we filmed ourselves posting the keys through the letter box.
We then took the tenancy agreement along with the letters to a solicitor. She informed us that his solicitors letter had been written without prejudice and that if we went to court a judge may not take it into consideration.
So we are taking him to court for the following
Return of deposit £500
Compensation up to three times the amount of deposit £1500
Solicitor fees £120
Any court fees incurred in order to retrieve the above.
The landlord has defended the claim and counterclaimed with the following
Missing Washing machine - £350
Damage to fence - £250
Chips to skirting boards and door frames - £850
Solicitors fees -£750
A broken tile -£130
A grill pan - £45
Advertising fees in local newspaper - £69
Advertising fee in newsagents - £12 a week for 6 weeks
Loss of rental costs from December to march 3 months - £1590
Plus court fee £100
We did not cause this any damage.
FYI the property is situated next to a busy road leading from a high school so I can only imagine that is how the fence panels were broken as it is clearly done from the outside.
I have enquirer and it costs 40p a week the advertise a property in newsagent.
His solicitor fees are excessive considering we only got one letter from them.
We had prior discussions about the cosmetic look of the property and we had all agreed that it could do with some attention. We never did it because we never got the rent free period and I'm not stupid enough to just not pay rent one month.
There is no inventory.
The previous tenant has agreed to attend the hearing with us to support the fact that they moved out on similar grounds.
We have agreed to meditation although we are not sure that the landlord has. It has been allocated to the small claims track and we have a date for the hearing in September. I just wanted to know if anyone has experience of this what our strongest points are, what we need evidence of and anything else that might be useful.
Sorry it is so long
Within our first two days we had to move out due to ants being in every cupboard in the kitchen. We paid to out some ant traps down and stayed with my parents until they worked. Then the cooker broke and although it was replaced it took two weeks to get it sorted. Then the hot water tap in the bathroom stopped working. Then while we were on holiday my dad visited the property to find out that the boiler had flooded. He got an engineer to look at it and for some reason at that point the landlords partner turned up at the property and stated that she couldn't remember when it was last checked. This was in may.
Prior to this the landlord partner had taken to randomly turning up and the house even wandering into the back garden. We had an agreement that we would cut the grass and she would deal with the shrubbery. In August our lawn mower broke at the beginning of the month and we were waiting until pay day to replace it. Within three days the landlords partner came to the house to ask me when it would be cut and I advised her of the situation with the mower and when we would get it done by. The next day she rang my husband at work to ask him when he was going to do it. And the next day she turned up at my parents house to say she had been 'looking for' my husband and asked him again when he was going to cut the grass.
By this point we were seriously fed up of being harassed so we wrote them a letter outlining the problems we had had and the repairs still to be carried out including a problem with the fridge not working and the bath room tap and the flags to the front of the property that were damaged prior to us ,oving in Aldo there was a mould problem developing. We said that we really just wanted to leave the tenancy as we weren't happy with the condition of the property. We also pointed out that there was no gas safety certificate and we did not have any details of where our deposit was protected.
We received a solicitors letter saying that they were unhappy with us for the grass thing, that there had been complaints about domestic rubbish and so they were happy for us to leave as long as we didn't bring any claim against them. It said something like 'as our client is similarly unhappy with you he is willing to let you leave the tenancy early and return your deposit in full providing that you pay your rent up until you leave and you cause no damage. Please inform us when you intend to vacate the property.'
We wrote back to the solicitor to say the only part of their letter we accept is that we can end the tenancy early however in the meantime we still want to know where the deposit is protected.
We heard nothing. That was september. So we started looking for alternative properties in the area. We eventually found somewhere to live in November. The letting agent approached the landlord for a reference which we later found out he ignored it and therefore hindered us being able to move out. After explaining to the letting agent the situation they were sympathetic to our situation and as we had rented from this letting agent in the past they allowed us to use and older reference in combination with a bank statement showing we had paid our rent. So in the end we ended up giving only 6 days notice that we were moving out because it was getting so close to Christmas that if we waited any longer we would have to either pay two rents or lose out on the property potentially. Plus as far as we were concerned the tenancy was over as we had been given permission to leave when we found somewhere appropriate.
We went to see the landlord to discuss the return of the deposit and handing back keys. He told us he saw no reason why we couldn't have the deposit back.
We then received a phone call from him the day before we were moving out, he was saying he wasn't giving us our deposit back because we are leaving the tenancy early. So of course we realised that the deposit wasn't protected which I already knew because I had checked online and called all of the schemes.
We cleaned the property from top to bottom on the day we moved out and it was in a much better state than when we moved in. We went to drop the keys off but he wasn't in so we filmed ourselves posting the keys through the letter box.
We then took the tenancy agreement along with the letters to a solicitor. She informed us that his solicitors letter had been written without prejudice and that if we went to court a judge may not take it into consideration.
So we are taking him to court for the following
Return of deposit £500
Compensation up to three times the amount of deposit £1500
Solicitor fees £120
Any court fees incurred in order to retrieve the above.
The landlord has defended the claim and counterclaimed with the following
Missing Washing machine - £350
Damage to fence - £250
Chips to skirting boards and door frames - £850
Solicitors fees -£750
A broken tile -£130
A grill pan - £45
Advertising fees in local newspaper - £69
Advertising fee in newsagents - £12 a week for 6 weeks
Loss of rental costs from December to march 3 months - £1590
Plus court fee £100
We did not cause this any damage.
FYI the property is situated next to a busy road leading from a high school so I can only imagine that is how the fence panels were broken as it is clearly done from the outside.
I have enquirer and it costs 40p a week the advertise a property in newsagent.
His solicitor fees are excessive considering we only got one letter from them.
We had prior discussions about the cosmetic look of the property and we had all agreed that it could do with some attention. We never did it because we never got the rent free period and I'm not stupid enough to just not pay rent one month.
There is no inventory.
The previous tenant has agreed to attend the hearing with us to support the fact that they moved out on similar grounds.
We have agreed to meditation although we are not sure that the landlord has. It has been allocated to the small claims track and we have a date for the hearing in September. I just wanted to know if anyone has experience of this what our strongest points are, what we need evidence of and anything else that might be useful.
Sorry it is so long
0
Comments
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Too long, didn't read.
Please condense your post.Well life is harsh, hug me don't reject me.0 -
You cant claim compensation for non protection of deposit via small claims0
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What date does/did the fixed term end?Return of deposit £500
Compensation up to three times the amount of deposit £1500
* If the deposit was not registered, you will get itback + up to 3 times extra depending how seriously the judge takes it.
Solicitor fees £120 You cannot clim solicitors fees if the action goes via the small claims track. However I believe deposit penalty claims go viacounty court so you may get this.
Any court fees incurred in order to retrieve the above. You should get this
The landlord has defended the claim and counterclaimed with the following
Missing Washing machine - £350 what does the inventory say? Do you have anything in writing about LL telling you todisposeof it? What will your witness (previous tenant) say?
Damage to fence - £250 did you damage it? Doyou/LL have photos from start/endof tenancy? What will witness say? Is there a neighbour you can take as witness?
Chips to skirting boards and door frames - £850 What does check-in inventory say? Is there a contractor's quote for the work? Can you get a (cheaper) contractor's quote (or do you intend to denay any liability?)
Solicitors fees -£750 as above. Whether these are awrded depends
a) whether smallclaims track and
b) who wins(though if you win somepoints and LL winssome,it may be pro-rata)
A broken tile -£130 as above
A grill pan - £45 as above
Advertising fees in local newspaper - £69 Surely the cost depends how many weeks? How many words? Whether with photos? How big a space? £69 is not excessive
Advertising fee in newsagents - £12 a week for 6 weeks as above
Loss of rental costs from December to march 3 months - £1590
can only be claimed if you owe rent ie by not giving correct notice
Plus court fee £100
as above
What date will/did you move out?
What written notice did you give(dates)? If any.
See
Ending/Renewing an AST (what happens when the Fixed Term ends?)(What is a Periodic Tenancy?)(How can a LL remove a tenant?)(How can a tenant end a tenancy?)0 -
If there was no inventory, then they can't prove the condition of the property when you moved in, so can't deduct anything.
Did you send a letter before action?
You didn't need a solicitor. You just needed to send a letterbefore action stating the above, highlighting you were moving out early as agreed (send copy of his solicitor letter) and giving him 14 days to return deposit in full.
On the other hand, 6 days notice was taking the p*ss. He agreed you could be released early, not reduce your notice period, so to be fair, I would ask him to deduct 24 days rent from the deposit!Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')
No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)0 -
Deposit non-protection claim is a County County Part 8 route - you cannot "decide" to claim this, it is 1-3x the amount and must go through the correct claims process and judge will decide.
Your solicitor sounds pretty useless if they are not aware of this.0 -
It is a multi-track case, but the court has discretion to allocate it to go through small claims, as they are for the most not overly complicated and the facts are usually quite clear. Many courts are following this route, but it's up to them to decide.0
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We sent a letter saying we intended to move out 3 months before we actually moved. The letter is dated August 20th and we moved on November 26th and the term was due to end 26th Feb 2013
I agree that the 6 days notice was very short. I can accept that but if I gave a months notice we would have been moving over christmas which would not have been possible for a number of reasons.
The case is being heard by a district judge at county court. I thought it was small claims because of it being under £5000.
We sent a letter before action. We said we agreed with his solicitors letter stating that we were free to leave the tenancy on the basis that the arrangement wasn't working for them or us. He claimed he never received this but we have a copy of it and our solicitor advised us that it was accepted as received after two days. When we found somewhere a few months later we sent a notice as soon as we got confirmation that we had been accepted for the new house. We would have been able to let him know sooner if he hadn't refused to give a reference, in effect meaning that he was aware that we had found somewhere before we actually wrote to him.
There is no inventory. @G_M
Also, we reminded him 3 or 4 times in letters and verbally that he had to protect the deposit. He claimed that he didn't know about this rule but then still didn't protect it. This is not the only property he rents out.0
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