Buying retirement flat without probate

emma_spaghetti

Hi all,

I hope someone can help us - my 80 year old nan recently sold her retirement flat, moved down from Devon to be nearer to us in Kent (she has bought another retirement flat).

The whole process has been very drawn due to delays with the solicitor - we were told it was originally because they were exploring why she needs to pay X to the management company of the block of flats when she dies / moves home.

However we have today found out that its because the flat doesn't have a 'probate' (the owner before died). Can someone please explain what a probate is, the implications of not having one and whether you can sell a home without one? I believe she has already signed the contract; she was simply waiting to get the keys to move in...

Thanks in advance!

BitterAndTwisted

Properties don't "have" probate. It's the process of disposing of a dead person's estate and has to be applied for. It sounds like the flat is being sold by someone who isn't authorised to do so.

What has you Nan's conveyancing solictor advised?

Road_Hog

emma_spaghetti wrote: »

Can someone please explain what a probate is, the implications of not having one and whether you can sell a home without one? I believe she has already signed the contract; she was simply waiting to get the keys to move in...

Thanks in advance!

In simple terms, what it means for you, is proof of ownership to sell. There is sometimes a legal process to go through to prove that a person is the rightful recipient of money/assets from an estate.

So, for example, I had a friend whose wife died. Most of the stuff was straightforward, and was handed over or paid to the husband. However, the life insurance company wanted probate (which I did for him as he isn't good with paperwork), so I filled the forms in and sent them off and got probate, which effectively meant that he was the rightful recipient of the life insurance and it meant that there was no comeback on the life insurance company, if someone stepped forward and said that they were meant to benefit from the life insurance.

I would ask the solicitors if probate has been granted or if ownership (the person selling it) has been 100% established.

zzzLazyDaisy

She may well have already signed the contract in readiness for exchange, but the contract will not yet be legally binding because without probate, there is no-one at the seller's end who is authorised to sign the forms. Which means that contracts cannot be exchanged (this is the point at which the transaction becomes legally binding).

Without wishing to sound pedantic, your Nan has not 'bought' a retirement flat, but is 'in the process of buying' it. The distinction is important because until exchange either party can withdraw from the sale.

These probate delays can be a feature of buying retirement flats, since there is a higher percentage of sales by the estate of a deceased owner. Really all your Nan can do is be patient until it is all sorted out, or start looking around at other similar properties in the area.

emma_spaghetti

Hi,

Sorry for the delay in responding to you all! Thanks for all your help so far.can the estate agent put the house on the market if there is no probate? This has been rumbling on for about 4 months now and all her furniture is in storage. There still seems to be no aign of a probate being issued or the process started.

From what she said it was just a formality of signing the contract and exchanging before she moved in, so all her furnishings have been put into storage. She is also paying for the flats maintenance fees whilst she waits for the probate issue to be sorted. Surely this isnt right if the contravt isnt yet legally binding?

zzzLazyDaisy

Yes the EA can put the flat on the market when there is no probate. Sometimes places take months or years to sell, soit is common to put the place up for sale before everything is sorted.

I don't understand why she is paying the maintenance on the flat though - is she renting it until the sale goes through by any chance?

If not, she has no ownership and no contract, she certainly should not be paying anything to do with the new flat - it is literally nothing to do with her - until exchange the seller could pull out at any time. Has she spoken to her solicitor about this?

emma_spaghetti

Sorry misunderstanding; she is only paying storage NOT maintenance!

tim123456789

Probate could take ages. If it were me I'd investigate the option of renting the property in the meantime.

TBH the hardest person to convince will be the property management company. They don't like letting owners let their flats because they see it as a ruse to get around the "claw back" clause in the lease. But they haven't really got a right to do that.

Having said that, if they really are a bunch or rogues, do you want to be buying in that block in the first place? Empty retirement flats are ten a penny in most areas.

moneyistooshorttomention

LazyDaisy will know better, but when I was looking up "how long does probate take?" recently the overall answer came up as being "about 6 weeks" in the normal run of events
(though obviously that's no excuse whatsoever for a vendor putting a property on the market without having got that sorted out and finished with first).

jellie

When I dealt with my mum's estate, probate came through in only about 10 days. She'd left a will, and there were no family complications/disagreements to deal with.

I'd ask your nan's solicitor to check what the situation is - it might highlight if there are any problems which could cause a delay that your nan would find unacceptable.

beecher2

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

LazyDaisy will know better, but when I was looking up "how long does probate take?" recently the overall answer came up as being "about 6 weeks" in the normal run of events
(though obviously that's no excuse whatsoever for a vendor putting a property on the market without having got that sorted out and finished with first).

Our solicitors advised us that there was no reason to wait for things to be sorted out before putting a house up for sale - EA should've advised that it was going through probate though.

What does your nan's solicitor say? They are the ones who should be finding out how long this will take.