Beneficiaries' right to see estate accounts

nige123

Do non-residuary beneficiaries have a right to see estate accounts so long as they receive their (fixed) bequest?

troubleinparadise

I don't believe it is a requirement to show a non-residuary beneficiary the estate accounts.

When giving a legatee their fixed bequest, I did give them a copy of the Will to prove that their legacy given was as stated in the Will.

A residuary beneficiary is entitled to see the estate accounts, and can ask prior to distribution if they so wish.

You should seek legal advice for the definitive answer if needed.

Leslie999

If a solicitor states they are going to give a beneficiary a copy of the estate accounts so the beneficiary can decide on their legal rights ( Scotland) or the provision in the will, do they have to do this by law ?
If you are a named beneficiary in a will does the executor have to give you a copy of the estate accounts if you ask ?
What can you do if you ask and they won't pass them on ?
Can you ask the financial institutions directly ?
The list of the accounts and how much was in the accounts is public knowledge because it should all be on probate and as public information.
Are the financial institutions legally obliged to give this information which is supposed to be public, to a named beneficiary ?
What happens when the financial institutions refuse ?
How can a beneficiary check an executor has been honest if the executor is refusing to give the beneficiary the estate accounts ?

Does the law do enough to protect a deceased from a 'fraudulent' executor ?

Would welcome discussion on these questions ...

Or clear answers !!!

getmore4less

Leslie999 wrote: »

The list of the accounts and how much was in the accounts is public knowledge because it should all be on probate and as public information.
!!!

That information is not on the probate forms it is on the IHT*** forms and I don't think they are part of the public record.

troubleinparadise

Dear Leslie999,

I'm not sure where you've got your information from, but it isn't quite correct. For Scottish law you will need to check that specifically as it does vary from English law. But some answers to your questions (with the English/Scottish law caveat):

Can you ask the financial institutions directly ?

No, a beneficiary can't. The only people who the financial institutions will deal with would be the Executor/s (or an appointed solicitor), and they usually have to provide evidence that they are the executor before information is given.

Are the financial institutions legally obliged to give this information which is supposed to be public, to a named beneficiary ?

No. The information is not public; it is passed on to HMRC & the Court. The financial institutions are not legally obliged to give a named beneficiary any information.

What happens when the financial institutions refuse ?

To provide the information to a beneficiary? Nothing. They should not give that information to anyone other than the Executor, or a solicitor acting for the Executor.

How can a beneficiary check an executor has been honest if the executor is refusing to give the beneficiary the estate accounts ?

Does the law do enough to protect a deceased from a 'fraudulent' executor ?

If the beneficiaries have serious concerns regarding the ability of an Executor to perform his duties, the beneficiaries must firstly write to the Executor and ask him to explain his actions. If an explanation is not forthcoming or the beneficiaries are not satisfied by the Executors’ explanation, he or she may make an application to the High Court to remove or substitute the Executor.

getmore4less

troubleinparadise wrote: »

No, a beneficiary can't. The only people who the financial institutions will deal with would be the Executor/s (or an appointed solicitor), and they usually have to provide evidence that they are the executor before information is given.

.

In practice the financial(and other) institutions will deal(respond to enquiries) from the person that provides the death certificate often requiring no other proof.

they often have to deal with intestate estates so there is no will and you cannot get any proof you will be administering the estate till you have the grant which you can't get without the information needed to submit the IHT forms.

Leslie999

getmore4less wrote: »

That information is not on the probate forms it is on the IHT*** forms and I don't think they are part of the public record.

Thank you .
In Scotland the executor must write an inventory on the Confirmation document (C1) which is an HRMC document ( you find on their website) . And sign this as being a true and accurate representation of the estate. This form is submitted to HMRC . You can then apply for a copy of this Confirmation from the court ( publicly accessible) .

Perhaps it is different for Probate - English system .
The terms probate and confirmation are perhaps not as interchangeable as I implied . I am not a lawyer , and I don't know about probate !

Leslie999

troubleinparadise wrote: »

Dear Leslie999,

I'm not sure where you've got your information from, but it isn't quite correct. For Scottish law you will need to check that specifically as it does vary from English law. But some answers to your questions (with the English/Scottish law caveat):



No, a beneficiary can't. The only people who the financial institutions will deal with would be the Executor/s (or an appointed solicitor), and they usually have to provide evidence that they are the executor before information is given.

Thank you - just wanted to check. However, if it is clear the executor has not put all the estate on the C1 Confirmation document an this is highlighted to the financial institution, surely they have a continued duty of care to the deceased and to report the executor to the relevant authorities. If they are given the information which is different to their own records, then surely they must act or they are complicit with the executor who is hiding assets.
In not giving this information to beneficiaries , how many executors are getting away with 'theft' , supported by financial institutions ?
More transparency required ?

No. The information is not public; it is passed on to HMRC & the Court. The financial institutions are not legally obliged to give a named beneficiary any information.
As anyone can apply for a copy of the HMRC C1 Confirmation document, then is it not classed as being 'public' ?

To provide the information to a beneficiary? Nothing. They should not give that information to anyone other than the Executor, or a solicitor acting for the Executor.

And if the beneficiary has shown the executor is hiding assets ( which the deceased would not have done) and the executor is supposed be acting in the best interests of the beneficiaries and the deceased, should the financial institutions have a duty to report to the relevant authorities if they will not release the information to the beneficiaries ?

If the beneficiaries have serious concerns regarding the ability of an Executor to perform his duties, the beneficiaries must firstly write to the Executor and ask him to explain his actions. If an explanation is not forthcoming or the beneficiaries are not satisfied by the Executors’ explanation, he or she may make an application to the High Court to remove or substitute the Executor.

Mmm, the executor has not and will not explain his actions. Two court appearances later, the information is still not forthcoming ( in itself a breach of an executors duties). I have requested to my solicitor to have him removed as executor, but my solicitor smirked and said it will cost me a lot of money and has continued to suggest a different course of action than this .

So , how do beneficiaries, and natural children of the deceased, ensure their mother is not being dishonoured by a fraudulent executor ?
Seems there is very little support in law , or transparency, for fraudulent executors to be held accountable .

Many thanks for your answers.

troubleinparadise

Leslie999 wrote: »

Mmm, the executor has not and will not explain his actions. Two court appearances later, the information is still not forthcoming ( in itself a breach of an executors duties). I have requested to my solicitor to have him removed as executor, but my solicitor smirked and said it will cost me a lot of money and has continued to suggest a different course of action than this .

So , how do beneficiaries, and natural children of the deceased, ensure their mother is not being dishonoured by a fraudulent executor ?
Seems there is very little support in law , or transparency, for fraudulent executors to be held accountable .

Many thanks for your answers.

Thanks for your replies - and obviously there are differences in the Scottish system vs the English version.

I also see your point that there is no simple form of redress should the Executor choose not to disclose certain sums. It goes against the moral and ethical code, let alone the legal one, but equally it does sound as though seeking legal redress is a costly and time consuming process.

As an Executor myself I wouldn't wish to dishonour the person who elected me, nor my own reputation, let alone fall foul of the Law and HMRC. Perhaps others don't see things that way

Are the sums of money worth pursuing this? I obviously understand that this shouldn't be the point, but your solicitor's view is valid in that it could be prohibitive; at least s/he is giving you good advice in not wasting your own money pursuing something that you might not achieve even if it would bring some satisfaction through legal retribution. What is the solicitor's suggested course of action?

Leslie999

Will post later

madbadrob

Without knowing the full ins and outs it is nigh on impossible to answer this definitively. In England the only way I believe an executor can be removed is if they are acting against the law or if they agree to be removed. The costs with this are high and should the executor win they can claim the costs from the estate and as such leave the estate with no monies to disperse.

I would ask how you know the executor is not acting in the interests of the estate. If the court has ordered that he/she/they produce proof that they are acting in the interests of the estate why as yet they havent and why the court as not imposed sanctions

Rob