APCOA 02-Dropping off / Picking up charge notice

Xoriguer

Hi fellow forum members.

I received the dreaded APCOA parking charge notice 2-Dropping off / Picking up outside of a designated parking area at Luton airport. I travel very frequently and have paid the fees for the 10 sec stop for dropping me off at the airport many times which I think is an abuse but in this occasion I was so late that jumped out at the round about and run to the door.

I read some forums that the ignore strategy is not working any more and that from 1st Oct 2012 an appeal is needed. However, the information in forums is a bit confusing and therefore I am asking here for fresh advice.

It looks like they have a 14 day period to notify and since the offence is dated on the 10/06/2013 and the letter have been issued on the 25/06/2013 those dates printed on the same letter already invalidate the claim. Am I right?

Please find the letter with personal details deleted here:

postimg.org/image/hiz89cott/

I look forward to hear your wise advice.

Best regards

Stroma

They are out of time on this, it must reach you within 14 days, its dated out of time as well, a complaint to the dvla should be done also [EMAIL="foi@dvla.gsi.gov.uk"]foi@dvla.gsi.gov.uk[/EMAIL] , attach the letter to the email

http://postimg.org/image/hiz89cott/

Name
Address

Date

Dear Scammers,

In reference to the speculative invoice received xxxxxx dated xxxxxx, the keeper denies all liability to your company as your Notice to Keeper is in breach of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. If you reject this challenge the keeper requires within 35 days a popla verification code for them to appeal independently, per Version 2 of the BPA Code of Practice.

The keeper has nothing further to add, and will not respond to any correspondence from your company unless it contains the popla code, furthermore the keeper is fully aware that you must pay £27+Vat for this, so don't forget!

The challenge will be deemed accepted if there is no popla code on any rejection that you supply within the time-frame stipulated above.

Yours Faithfully

Your name (printed)

bazster

Good grief, another one, will they never learn?

You are right about the dates, by their own admission they are out of time. But the whole thing is hogwash anyway - they are trying to hold you liable as keeper under the provisions of the POFA 2012, but the POFA applies to parking only. You didn't park: stopping to allow passengers to board or alight is not parking, so POFA does not apply and there is no keeper liability, only the driver could be held liable - and they don't know who that is!

Anyway, simplest appeal to APCOA:

The keeper rejects all liability for this charge on the grounds that the Notice to Keeper was sent/received outwith the 14-day period following the alleged contravention as prescribed in the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. You must now either cancel the charge or provide the keeper with a POPLA code. No further correspondence will be entered into, and your failure to supply a POPLA code will indicate your acceptance of this challenge.

And if they are stupid enough to send you a POPLA code instead of cancelling it, then we hit POPLA with loads of stuff, including the non-existent keeper liability.

And complain to DVLA: APCOA are sending a lot of these out-of-time notices and DVLA needs to stop letting them have keeper data if they will not adhere to the law. Furthemore, in the past, a parking company alleging keeper liability where none exists has been a sure-fire way of getting them suspended by the DVLA.

Guys_Dad

Stroma wrote: »

They are out of time on this, it must reach you within 14 days, its dated out of time as well, a complaint to the dvla should be done also [EMAIL="foi@dvla.gsi.gov.uk"]foi@dvla.gsi.gov.uk[/EMAIL] , attach the letter to the email

http://postimg.org/image/hiz89cott/

In cases where a motorist is going to go to POPLA using generic appeal points, I would agree 100% with stroma's soft appeal, but in this case where there is a cast iron get out as a result of them running out of time, I would try to kill it dead and get my appeal accepted with my appeal letter.

So I would rewrite the appeal as follows

Name
Address

Date

Dear APCOA,

In reference to the speculative invoice received xxxxxx dated xxxxxx, the keeper denies all liability to your company as your Notice to Keeper is in breach of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

The particular point of my appeal - there are others, but this is the definitive one at this stage - is that you have failed to adhere to the strict timetable for sending out your notice to keeper as laid down in paragraphs 9(4) - (6) of the said POFA schedule 4.

If you care to read these paragraphs, you will see that your NTK to me fell outside this strict timescale. But I suspect that you probably knew this and are hoping I didn't. Sorry to disappoint.

Should you choose to ignore this valid challenge, the keeper requires within 35 days a POPLA verification code, as per the POPLA web site, where, after the appeal costing you £27 + VAT, the keeper will cite this, plus a number of other appeal points for POPLA adjudication.

The keeper has nothing further to add, and will not respond to any correspondence from your company unless it contains the POPLA code. Again, your reply is governed by the timescales of POPLA as shown on their web site, which may differ from the latest BPA COP.

The challenge will be deemed accepted if there is no POPLA code on any rejection that you supply within the time-frame stipulated above.

Yours faithfully

Your name (printed)

The advantage to this is they then know you have the winning hand and common sense dictates they grant the appeal at this stage, without it hanging over your head for months.

From a couple of threads on here, it seems that some PPCs have the idea in their head that they have 14/15 days to send the NTK (or 28/29 if a ticket was issued).

They haven't taken on board that you have to receive it within 14 days and if the 14/15th day is a Saturday, they are out of time as it doesn't count.

Stroma

I think the indication that their Notice to Keeper is in breach of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 is enough, if they don't know what complies with pofa 2012 they shouldn't be a parking company its that simple!

Guys_Dad

Stroma wrote: »

I think the indication that their Notice to Keeper is in breach of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 is enough, if they don't know what complies with pofa 2012 they shouldn't be a parking company its that simple!

I agree with that!

However, from another current thread (Appealing > 28 Days), we have a PPC erroneously quoting the act believing that they were in time due to a misunderstanding or deliberate misquoting of the 28 day requirements.

Now it might be more satisfying cost them £27 plus VAT to have them st*ffed at POPLA, but most non-regulars just want it all to go away.

That's best done in the way I suggest, but I suspect that you, I and a few others would prefer to have a POPLA victory and, in that case, your letter would be the way to go. :beer:

Xoriguer

I have written a letter with the terms suggested by Guys Dad. I appreciate that it is nice to have them spend 27 + VAT but I prefer to try to get rid of this (my first) trauma as soon as possible.

I appreciate the time you spend here and your effort to end the abuse those cowboys are inflicting to people just for dropping someone at the airport.

I am about to complain to the DVLA about the case. Which terms do you think are the most appropriate for this?

bazster

Xoriguer wrote: »

I have written a letter with the terms suggested by Guys Dad. I appreciate that it is nice to have them spend 27 + VAT but I prefer to try to get rid of this (my first) trauma as soon as possible.

I appreciate the time you spend here and your effort to end the abuse those cowboys are inflicting to people just for dropping someone at the airport.

I am about to complain to the DVLA about the case. Which terms do you think are the most appropriate for this?

1. That APCOA used personal details obtained from DVLA to send you a Notice to Keeper that was invalid due to being out-of-time under the provisions of the POFA 2012.

2. That APCOA claimed you were liable as keeper, under the provisions of the POFA 2012, when (i) the alleged contravention didn't involve parking (ii) therefore POFA 2012 provisions regarding keeper liability are not applicable and (iii) accordingly there is no keeper liability.

Enclose or attach a copy of the notice (not redacted, obviously).

Be sure to tell DVLA that (i) your communication is confidential to DVLA only (ii) they do not have your permission to pass it or your personal details on to anyone else and (iii) you have provided them with sufficient information to deal with the matter themselves without reference to any other party, and you expect them to do so.

(Otherwise they'll just pass it all over to the toothless British Parking Association and wash their hands of it).

Oh, and be sure to request that they notify you of the outcome of their investigations.

Guys_Dad

Xoriguer wrote: »

I have written a letter with the terms suggested by Guys Dad. I appreciate that it is nice to have them spend 27 + VAT but I prefer to try to get rid of this (my first) trauma as soon as possible.

I appreciate the time you spend here and your effort to end the abuse those cowboys are inflicting to people just for dropping someone at the airport.

I am about to complain to the DVLA about the case. Which terms do you think are the most appropriate for this?

Might I suggest that you wait to write to the DVLA? The reason is simple. You have given a very clear reason for the appeal. If the PPC is silly enough to refuse your appeal, then you are in a much stronger position to raise a complaint enclosing their refusal.

If they accept your appeal, again you can write to the DVLA enclosing their acceptance which admits their mis-application of POFA.

They might also fail to stick to the required deadlines or even refuse to acknowledge your appeal. Yet another complaint!

So, patience would be my advice.

edit:- Incorporate bazster's points as well, of course.

bazster

I disagree entirely. The complaint to DVLA is entirely separate from the appeal process and the Notice to Keeper is already plenty of evidence of APCOA's shortcomings. The sooner they get banned by DVLA the better, but it'll be months before the appeal process completes.

There's nothing to stop more complaints to DVLA in future if the need arises.

Guys_Dad

bazster wrote: »

I disagree entirely. The complaint to DVLA is entirely separate from the appeal process and the Notice to Keeper is already plenty of evidence of APCOA's shortcomings. The sooner they get banned by DVLA the better, but it'll be months before the appeal process completes.

There's nothing to stop more complaints to DVLA in future if the need arises.

You have misunderstood me. I am suggesting that OP waits till ACPOA responds to his appeal to them, not POPLA. That will not take months, hopefully a few days or 35 at the outside.

When OP has either a PPC refusal of his appeal (which has been clearly set out and is correct) or an acceptance, which then admits the PPC was wrongly applying POFA, that is even more conclusive evidence to provide to DVLA as whatever they write, they are then condemned by their own hand..