Can I appeal > 28 days from ticket issue?

gardner1

spacey2012 wrote: »

Why bother ? unless your idea of having fun is writing silly letters ?
They know where the court is if they want to chance their hand.
Let them put up or shut up.

my thoughts as well
just ignore ignore ignore why waste time effort and stamps on these scammers

Guys_Dad

gardner1 wrote: »

my thoughts as well
just ignore ignore ignore why waste time effort and stamps on these scammers

.... For the very reasons given by the previous 2 respected contributors.

"IGNORE" in a case like this, is so "last year" and if the PPC is so ignorant of POFA, BPA guidelines etc as to try it on as we assume they have, subject to OP confirming the questions asked, they are just dumb enough to try court and waste OP's time and effort assembling a case and actually having to go to court.

That's why.

habeale

Thanks everyone for your advice - particularly #5 from dmkomaas and #6 from coupon-mad. I now feel I have enough ammo to take them on.

In response to #7 the first communication we recieved was on the 21st June and it was entitled 'Formal Demand - Do not ignore this notice'. The first few paragraghs imply that this is their 1st communication with us but don't explicitly say so. It reads ....

"A Parking Charge Notice (PCN) was issued to the vehicle ????? on the 22-02-013 at location ????? for the alledged contravention of "Unauthorised Parking". This PCN has not been paid and the opportunity to pay a discounted amount has been lost.

Failure to provide Owner/Driver details or payment of the full amount or £100 within 28 days of this notice will result in an increase to £150 plus further administrative costs. This letter will form part of our case against the driver of the vehicle.

As the PCN issued remained unpaid for 28 days, we had reasonable cause to request the registered keeper details from the DVLA to issue this notice."

Guys_Dad

OK.

Could you post up their communication from the 26th or the relevant bit where they turned down your request? I assume you asked for the POPLA code and they turned you down.

As I wrote earlier, they have 3 unpalatable choices because they did not keep to the BPA/POFA timescales.

1. Withdraw their ticket (cheapest option to them)
2. Issue you with a POPLA code and you get it dismissed at POPLA on the failure to send a NTK within the timescale (next cheapest option) as well as including all the other standard appeal points.
3 Go to court and get it thrown out as per POPLA (most expensive option).

In all cases, their appeal rejection should be sent with a complaint to BPA. In option 2, included within your POPLA appeal and in option 3 used as a basis for claiming your costs in time and advice etc.

That's what I meant by having some fun with the reply.

nigelbb

Does it mention the Protection Of Freedoms Act in that letter? It does read like a NTK. If it doesn't mention POFA then they are going 'old school' possibly because they knew they were out of time to comply with POFA. All they can do now is harass the keeper for payment when in fact it's only the driver that they can chase.

habeale

After all your advice this morning I emailed them and said:

You failed to write to me, the registered keeper, within the timescles prescribed in law under paragraph 9.4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. You have 28 days from ticket issue to await a response from the driver. If you do not receive a response you may aquire the registered keeper details from the DVLA and send a Notice to Keeper. This MUST occur within the following 28 days. You failed to do so and therefore there is no keeper liability for you to pursue.

This is their response:

This information is completely incorrect. We can apply to the DVLA not before 28 days of issuing a PCN to a vehicle. Once we receive the information from the DVLA we have a further 28 days to send the Notice to Keeper out, giving the registered keeper a further 28 to make payment.

The charge remains outstanding and will be transferred to our Debt Recovery Agents 28 days from the date of the Notice to Keeper.

From the advice above I assumed that NPE had to send me a Notice to Keeper within 56 days of the initial ticket. Am I wrong?

nigelbb

habeale wrote: »

This information is completely incorrect. We can apply to the DVLA not before 28 days of issuing a PCN to a vehicle. Once we receive the information from the DVLA we have a further 28 days to send the Notice to Keeper out, giving the registered keeper a further 28 to make payment.

They are telling the truth when they say "This information is completely incorrect.":)

They can buy the driver details from the DVLA whenever they like but if they want to attempt to hold the keeper responsible for any unpaid parking charges then they must abide by the timescales described in POFA 2012 & that is where a Notice To Driver is left on the car that a Notice To Keeper must be sent not earlier than 28 days nor later than 56 days after the parking event (not when they get the data from the DVLA). Days are counted from the day after the parking event. Here is the relevant extract from POFA 2012

8
(4) The notice must be given by:
(a) handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current address for service for the keeper, within the relevant period; or
(b) sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.
(5) The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 28 days following the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to driver was given.

Guys_Dad

Thanks, Nigel, I couldn't find that bit, but thought I had seen it. Eyesight isn't what it was!!!

So OP should write back to them, pointing them to that section, where they have got it wrong and giving them the unpalatable choices I outlined above, including asking for the POPLA code if they wanted option 2.

Or you could just ask for the POPLA code and let them run into a brick wall at POPLA.

Would love to see them waste £27 on this one!

habeale

Thanks Guys, I'll let you know how I get on. Hayley

Umkomaas

@nigelbb - thanks for putting this confirmation up. Funny how such a vigorous PPC denial can just set you back on your feet a bit, causing me to re-read PoFA Schedule 4.

Nowhere in that Schedule is DVLA mentioned, so they can't pray them in aid as part of the law.

And in any case the NtK is 4 months (120+ days) after the event; they're having a laugh !!!!!!.

@Hayley - look forward to the next [STRIKE]laugh[/STRIKE] instalment from NPE. Have an easy weekend!