Rail Card System?

JohnG

My daughter was penalised £60 on her train journey to CastleCarey on her way to Glastonbury today. She had forgotten her Rail Card in her rush to leave in the morning having returned the night before from her graduation day held at the Royal Festival Hall in London. It’s not really an excuse but it’s easily done especially if you’re not as organised as my wife for example :whistle:.

Although I have taken a quick look at the T&Cs of RailCards and see that you have to have the card on your person when travelling, but I don’t understand why it’s not obvious to the powers that be that you have a Rail Card having bought a ticket on that basis? Presumably there is no card number to cross reference it with the ticket which seems daft to me especially if you have paid for the Rail Card in the first place?

Obviously I have little knowledge of the system but it strikes me that forgetting the card is easily done and seems wrong that you seemingly have no opportunity to prove you have one if you happen to forget it on the day? (or loseit for that matter?)

I would like to pursue the matter with the relevant Train Company at least to raise my concerns on the matter but I guess there’s little or no chance receiving a refund as rules are rules?

p00hsticks

JohnG wrote: »

Although I have taken a quick look at the T&Cs of RailCards and see that you have to have the card on your person when travelling, but I don’t understand why it’s not obvious to the powers that be that you have a Rail Card having bought a ticket on that basis? Presumably there is no card number to cross reference it with the ticket which seems daft to me especially if you have paid for the Rail Card in the first place?

I think the key is probably that the railcard has a photo that shows the ticket inspector on the train that the person with the railcard is indeed the person travelling with the ticket.

If you just needed the card to purchase a ticket but not at the time you travelled, it wouldn't be long before some bright sparks worked out that a single person with a single railcard could buy cheap tickets for a train full of passengers.....

nearlyrich

If you use a railcard to book a ticket you have to show it when you travel otherwise we could all say we have one...

I doubt you would get anywhere but to be fair if your daughter is old enough to graduate and go to Glastonbury maybe she should fight her own battles?

wealdroam

Also worth remembering that when booking online there is absolutely no requirement to actually have a railcard at the time of booking.

In other words anyone, railcard holder or not, can buy a railcard discounted ticket, and it is only at the time of travel that the railcard must be carried.

OP, please don't waste too much time on pursuing the matter.
As you say, you have little chance of success.

Hasbeen

JohnG wrote: »

My daughter was penalised £60 on her train journey to CastleCarey on her way to Glastonbury today. She had forgotten her Rail Card in her rush to leave in the morning having returned the night before from her graduation day held at the Royal Festival Hall in London. It’s not really an excuse but it’s easily done especially if you’re not as organised as my wife for example :whistle:.

Although I have taken a quick look at the T&Cs of RailCards and see that you have to have the card on your person when travelling, but I don’t understand why it’s not obvious to the powers that be that you have a Rail Card having bought a ticket on that basis? Presumably there is no card number to cross reference it with the ticket which seems daft to me especially if you have paid for the Rail Card in the first place?

Obviously I have little knowledge of the system but it strikes me that forgetting the card is easily done and seems wrong that you seemingly have no opportunity to prove you have one if you happen to forget it on the day? (or loseit for that matter?)

I would like to pursue the matter with the relevant Train Company at least to raise my concerns on the matter but I guess there’s little or no chance receiving a refund as rules are rules?

Sorry. It is your daughters responsibility as per the terms and conditions which she received when she bought the card, to produce it along with ticket on train or at barrier when asked.

People do buy tickets from the station ticket machines and also online and input they have a card to get a discount, when in reality they do not have one.:(

This is why cards have to be shown along with ticket on train etc.:)

Also, you have guessed correctly:T

JohnG

Thanks for your replies - all fair comments.

It's just frustrating that £60 has been snatched away due to my daughter's absent mindedness (we'll end up covering it no doubt as she has yet to find a job - early days of course) but still surprised, in this day and age, the Rail Card system lacks any kind of link to it when purchasing a ticket on the basis of having a Rail Card?

Another lesson learnt by my daughter (I hope)

Also, this system makes it too easy for people to say they have a Rail card when purchasing when they havnt so it's then reliant on an inspector to check on route which probably doesn't happen that often?. For example, we, as a family travelled from Reading to London on Tuesday, my wife ensured everyone who had a Railcard had them but were not asked to produce them at the ticket office. Neither were we asked at any stage of our journey to produce the tickets or Railcard. Personally I wouldn't want to take the risk but I bet there are many who would and probably get away with it which surely the Rail companies would want to minimise i.e. by linking the Rail card number to the initial purchase?

redux

I can't see what extra you think there should be.

A rail ticket is not tied to the name of the person travelling, so there would be no way to cross check a database of railcard accounts during purchase or travel. So the card must be carried, but isn't asked for at all types of ticket purchase.

Thus I could buy 2 tickets from a website for my mother and a friend to use with their senior railcards, without having one myself or needing to give their card details. Requiring and tracking that would add too much complication.

CharlieRabbit01

JohnG wrote: »

Thanks for your replies - all fair comments.

It's just frustrating that £60 has been snatched away due to my daughter's absent mindedness (we'll end up covering it no doubt as she has yet to find a job - early days of course) but still surprised, in this day and age, the Rail Card system lacks any kind of link to it when purchasing a ticket on the basis of having a Rail Card?

Another lesson learnt by my daughter (I hope)

Also, this system makes it too easy for people to say they have a Rail card when purchasing when they havnt so it's then reliant on an inspector to check on route which probably doesn't happen that often?. For example, we, as a family travelled from Reading to London on Tuesday, my wife ensured everyone who had a Railcard had them but were not asked to produce them at the ticket office. Neither were we asked at any stage of our journey to produce the tickets or Railcard. Personally I wouldn't want to take the risk but I bet there are many who would and probably get away with it which surely the Rail companies would want to minimise i.e. by linking the Rail card number to the initial purchase?

Linking the rail card number is a good idea but often there isn't much time when you purchase your ticket especially if its rush hour or you arrive with just enough time to buy one.

Buzby

The very reason you complain about the ease of buying a discounted ticket, is what actually caught her out. The ticket is not valid if the card is not presented when required during travel.

From this it seems a pretty robust system that without the discount card, purchasing a discounted ticket is pointless.

Hopefully she'll have learned something from the experience - as if they said 'we believe you', this drives a train through the verification system and makes the scheme worthless for those who buy their Railcards AND remember to display them when required!

LexyBoy

In the vast majority of cases, the current system works fine so the industry has little incentive to spend a lot of money on finding a "solution". A cynic would probably say that the extra fares collected when Railcards are forgotten is a handy extra earner for the TOCs.

In the event of ticketing moving to smartcards (which frankly I don't see happening any time soon, though it is the DfT's stated intention), the Railcard could be loaded onto the smartcard which would automatically give discounts and render it harder to misplace - though if a seperate photocard were required this could be forgotten too. This further makes it unlikely that the current system will be changed, as it would be seen only as an interim measure.

FGW are in general quite relaxed IME about such things (e.g. selling an excess fare, or Off-Peak tickets when the correct procedure is the full Anytime fare, as your daughter seems to have been charged), but they seem to tighten up around festivals - during the Reading festival the barriers are set to reject all discounted tickets so that Railcards can be checked.

My favoured solution to the forgotten-railcard issue is to sell an excess to the undiscounted fare (e.g. £10 if the original ticket was £20, undiscounted £30) plus an admin fee of say £10. This would avoid some of the really punitive fares, keep the value of the original ticket, and still discourage people from trying it on (because of the admin fee). However, as above, it's unlikely to change, although individual TOCs are free to take a more relaxed approach: CrossCountry for example will refund a new ticket bought in such circumstances, if sent proof of owning the Railcard.

BTW, are you aware of the Network Railcard? It will give the cardholder and up to three adults a 34% discount on most off-peak journeys in the former-Network SouthEast area; up to 4 children can also travel for a flat fare of £2. Could be handy for trips to London. Also if any of your children are under 16 a Family & Friends Railcard is very handy - similar deal (4 adults, 4 children) but valid throughout the country.

CharlieRabbit01

only way to ensure i always have my rail card with me is to keep it in my wallet behind my debit card which i more often than not have on me.