HS2 Budget: £40bn

Graham_Devon

Simple question - is this worth it?

My own thoughts on this is that the costs outweigh the benefits (and the benefits themselves are a point of contention).

To put this £40bn into perspective. The MOD's budget per year is £24bn. So it's near double the entire ministry of defence budget.

How many other things could be done with that £40bn? How many council houses could be built? How many hospital and clinic services could be saved? How many more police could we have on the streets?

Is spending all this money on HS2 really worth the benefit of getting from one city to another 40 minutes quicker?

TruckerT

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Simple question - is this worth it?

My own thoughts on this is that the costs outweigh the benefits (and the benefits themselves are a point of contention).

To put this £40bn into perspective. The MOD's budget per year is £24bn. So it's near double the entire ministry of defence budget.

How many other things could be done with that £40bn? How many council houses could be built? How many hospital and clinic services could be saved? How many more police could we have on the streets?

Is spending all this money on HS2 really worth the benefit of getting from one city to another 40 minutes quicker?

I think the HS2 obsession is closely linked to the obsession that we can return to the days of unlimited economic 'success'.

Until there is some convincing evidence that the latter is a serious possibility, then we should certainly hold fire on the former.

TruckerT

thescouselander

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Simple question - is this worth it?

My own thoughts on this is that the costs outweigh the benefits (and the benefits themselves are a point of contention).

To put this £40bn into perspective. The MOD's budget per year is £24bn. So it's near double the entire ministry of defence budget.

How many other things could be done with that £40bn? How many council houses could be built? How many hospital and clinic services could be saved? How many more police could we have on the streets?

Is spending all this money on HS2 really worth the benefit of getting from one city to another 40 minutes quicker?

Not so - the MOD's budget is more like £34 Bn per year plus a bit extra for current operations (taking the total bill to more than £40Bn)

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmselect/cmdfence/writev/133/m01.htm

So given its going to take many years to complete HS2 its a lot less on an anual basis and the infrastructure will be around for much longer than your average defence project.

Personally I think we should be upgrading all of the countries mainlines to a high speed standard. There really is no reason to have internal flights in a country the size of ours but we do because our trains are so slow by modern standards.

Graham_Devon

OK, I should have said resource budget. I was just trying to add something to compare against.

So let's try something else. The NHS budget per year is £110bn. Look at what is achieved with that.

HS2 will cost £40bn.

Seems like a very large expenditure for me. But hey, what do I know. You can get to Birmingham 40 minutes quicker...but you may have to wait 4 months longer for a joint operation.

I know where I see more bang for the buck, and it seems to me that HS2 is a colossal waste of resources we don't actually have.

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Seems like a very large expenditure for me. But hey, what do I know. You can get to Birmingham 40 minutes quicker...but you may have to wait 4 months longer for a joint operation.

If HS2 doesn't go ahead will people get joint operations 4 months quicker?

Is that really the context in which the debate should take place?

[Deleted User]

total and utter waste of money,it might be estimated at £40 b now but what £ by the time its finished,i saw one estimate that it wont be finished for 20 years and the cost will have increased by 30% to over £50 b
this govt is idiotic,whats needed is infrastructure spending NOW and mainly on social housing

TruckerT

wotsthat wrote: »

If HS2 doesn't go ahead will people get joint operations 4 months quicker?

Is that really the context in which the debate should take place?

The way things are going, I think there is a possibility that the NHS will have shut down completely by the time HS2 is completed.

TruckerT

lvader

The channel tunnel was a waste of money, but now that it's here and has been running for a number of years the cost is almost irrelevant and greatly benefits the economy.

CLAPTON

lvader wrote: »

The channel tunnel was a waste of money, but now that it's here and has been running for a number of years the cost is almost irrelevant and greatly benefits the economy.

it wasn't funded by the taxpayer

TruckerT

CLAPTON wrote: »

it wasn't funded by the taxpayer

You may be right, but it was certainly subject to huge money problems, and I'm not at all sure that it didn't benefit from some kind of bailout after it had opened for business - there was certainly a major financial re-structuring.

The projects which now seem desirable are probably no longer affordable. Capitalism has possibly reached its limits.

TruckerT

TruckerT

Let us not forget that in India (one of the new emerging powerhouses of the world), the railways are either a quaint tourist attraction or transport for the poor. But India is much larger than the UK, with fewer international airports pro rata.

Is India agonising over its transport infrastructure? Is it anywhere near finding a solution?

TruckerT