BT- when free means £90

imaginarynumber

Hi

My mum's BT broadband kept dropping out.

The BT router was plugged into the NT5E via a belkin microfilter, along with a DECT phone, there are no extensions.

Initially I tried different filters, i plugged the router into the back plate of the NT5E etc.

The BB still kept dropping out so I rang BT. The THD said that they could see 20 or so reconnections per day. They ran some tests with the router plugged into the back plate, then they ran more tests and decided that there was a fault somewhere. They wanted to run more tests the next day. After doing so they told me that they would need to send an engineer as the fault appeared to be outside on the line. I confirmed that everything upto and including the NT5E was their property and that there would be no charge.

a couple of days later the engineer turned up, he checked the local green box and then came in to look at the NT5E. He plugged his laptop in but was unable to see anything amiss. I explained that the fault was intermittent in nature and that additionally she kept getting phantom rings and that incoming callers would hear the engaged tone even when no one was on the phone. He decided to replace the face plate of the NT5E with the iPlate version that has the filter built in. He also decided to swap her BT router for the next version (Hub 3). As I don't live there and I am not the bill payer I double checked to make sure that there were no charges. He explained that he routinely changes the face place and was "upgrading" the router because he was a nice fellow, there was no fault on the consumer side and accordingly no charge.

He left, and the broad band has AFAIK been stable ever since and the other issues on the line seem to have been resolved. The wifi signal however seems to be weaker on the Hub3 but I have added a second WIFI access point.

My mother has since discovered that she has been charged £90 for the visit. Billing insist that she is responsible because the engineers report mentioned interference and that the speed has been increased. Any speed increase though would be the result of the signal being improved and not an "upgrade".

Interference? The BT cable runs up the front of the house to the first floor and trough a wall. The only cables within 3 foot of the NT5E are an ethernet cable, which is plugged into BT router (and then runs outside and down to a TV) and a coax. I can only imagine that the engineer thought "not sure which device is faulty (the modem or NT5E), so I will replace them both and just write some thing on the report". I honestly believe that he did so in good faith.

Billing are adamant that she would not have been told that the "repair" would be free. They claim that BT Openreach turn up, do their work and then bill BT, who inturn then bill the customer. As such (they claim) that no one at BT would ever suggest that any kind of repair (under any circumstances) would be offered as free until the engineer report is submitted.

I am aware that Openreach will bill BT in the event that they weren't dealing with issues on their side but in this case I can not see how my mother can be help responsible for BT Broadband's equipment.

Any suggestions as to how one resolves this?

In the even that a refund and apology are not forth coming i will be recommending that she switch to Virgin and persue the matter through the small claims court.

prowla

The phantom calls suggest there is a problem with the line to the house.
I had an issue with my phone line and it turned out that water had got into the cables in the ground outside.

My understanding of charging for this is that the phone company are responsible as far as the socket and the householder's responsibility starts at the wire which plugs in to the socket.

You can get the ADSL filters, and it sounds like the engineer installed an integrated one into the socket. That blurs the line of responsibility IMHO.

On the matter of charging, I recall when I was with BT that they took great pains to inform me that I would be charged if a fault was found to be inside the house, to the point where I had to tell them they were annoying me keeping on saying it.

It would seem to me though that the engineer specifically saying that there would be no charge should cover it - what are you supposed to do, record every conversation you have?

POPPYOSCAR

I had problems with BT when they charged me for coming to a repair
(the engineer told me had mixed up my job with someone else but that his boss would fix it and I would not get charged)

At first they made me feel like I was telling lies, and even said that if they had been told that they would have got the name of the engineer, it was only when they read the engineers notes and it did not tally with my circumstances,( I have no phone point in my lounge) that they agreed to look into it further and I ended up getting it taken off the bill.

Do not pay the charge have it put 'on dispute'(pay the rest of the bill) and ask them to get a report from the Openreach Engineer. It may take several weeks.

In future any engineer that steps foot in my house will be requested for his name and number, I might even take a photo!!!

POPPYOSCAR

prowla wrote: »

The phantom calls suggest there is a problem with the line to the house.
I had an issue with my phone line and it turned out that water had got into the cables in the ground outside.

My understanding of charging for this is that the phone company are responsible as far as the socket and the householder's responsibility starts at the wire which plugs in to the socket.

You can get the ADSL filters, and it sounds like the engineer installed an integrated one into the socket. That blurs the line of responsibility IMHO.

On the matter of charging, I recall when I was with BT that they took great pains to inform me that I would be charged if a fault was found to be inside the house, to the point where I had to tell them they were annoying me keeping on saying it.

It would seem to me though that the engineer specifically saying that there would be no charge should cover it - what are you supposed to do, record every conversation you have?

Well going by my experience it would seem you do!

imaginarynumber

prowla wrote: »

The phantom calls suggest there is a problem with the line to the house.
I had an issue with my phone line and it turned out that water had got into the cables in the ground outside.

My understanding of charging for this is that the phone company are responsible as far as the socket and the householder's responsibility starts at the wire which plugs in to the socket.

You can get the ADSL filters, and it sounds like the engineer installed an integrated one into the socket. That blurs the line of responsibility IMHO.

On the matter of charging, I recall when I was with BT that they took great pains to inform me that I would be charged if a fault was found to be inside the house, to the point where I had to tell them they were annoying me keeping on saying it.

It would seem to me though that the engineer specifically saying that there would be no charge should cover it - what are you supposed to do, record every conversation you have?

Thanks for the reply.

Yes the new face plate includes a filter but as far as I am concerned it is clear that her filters were not the root cause. The faults persisted even when the router was plugged directly into the engineer socket on the NT5E with no filter.

As far as I am concerned BT are also responsible for the router, it remains their property.

Had the Technical Help desk thought that the router was faulty they were at liberty to send a replacement. They clearly decided that the fault required an engineer.

Had the fault been between a BT product and one of her computing devices a charge would have been fair. This was not the case though.

IMO opinion the BT line of argument regarding the Openreach engineer is moot given that the THD also told me that there would be no charge.

I omitted to mention in my first post that the engineer replaced the router as a "favour". He said that he wouldn't even mention it on the report. I didn't ask him to replace it and at the risk of sounding like an ingrate I wish he hadn't it. The WIFI signal on all channels seems to be worse now.

So as far as BT are concerned, an engineer turned up to replace a faulty BT master socket.

imaginarynumber

POPPYOSCAR wrote: »

I had problems with BT when they charged me for coming to a repair
(the engineer told me had mixed up my job with someone else but that his boss would fix it and I would not get charged)

At first they made me feel like I was telling lies, and even said that if they had been told that they would have got the name of the engineer, it was only when they read the engineers notes and it did not tally with my circumstances,( I have no phone point in my lounge) that they agreed to look into it further and I ended up getting it taken off the bill.

Do not pay the charge have it put 'on dispute'(pay the rest of the bill) and ask them to get a report from the Openreach Engineer. It may take several weeks.

In future any engineer that steps foot in my house will be requested for his name and number, I might even take a photo!!!

unfortunately she has already paid.

She has a direct debit. They took the standard bill payment as normal (eg £120) and then syphoned part of it (£40) to cover part of the £90 and then demanded the balance via debit card.

I will be asking for the engineer report later when I phone them, and the support logs.

Glad you got your case sorted.

POPPYOSCAR

Shame she has paid.

I also had a direct debit but I cancelled it and only paid the rest of the bill.

I then reinstated the DD when they confirmed it was sorted out.

imaginarynumber

Just to update.

Rang BT spoke to an operative, explained the proceedings, was transferred to home improvements/engineering (?). because the case was previous passed up to a supervisor it now has to go to the Final Appeals department, who should be phoning back by 11am tomorrow.

If my mother is not refunded I will be lodging a claim with the small claims court on her behalf. TBH I would be surprised if BT bothered to send a representative to the hearing. Unless any one knows otherwise?

agrinnall

While of course your mother has the right at any time to make a claim through the court, it seems a bit early to do that when there are other actions that can be taken for free that may get the same result. If BT reject the complaint then it can be passed to the Ombudsman who may decide in your favour (they did for me)

http://www.ombudsman-services.org/communications.html#

imaginarynumber

agrinnall wrote: »

While of course your mother has the right at any time to make a claim through the court, it seems a bit early to do that when there are other actions that can be taken for free that may get the same result. If BT reject the complaint then it can be passed to the Ombudsman who may decide in your favour (they did for me)

http://www.ombudsman-services.org/communications.html#

Hadn't thought of the ombudsman, thanks. what kind of time scale are you looking at?

Gemma__3

imaginarynumber wrote: »

As far as I am concerned BT are also responsible for the router, it remains their property. .

You would be wrong, the router is the customers, Unless you are on virgin then they own the kit. But that router is not BTs responsibility.

As for the filter not being the root cause. Did you try other filters?