When a Tribunal not a Tribunal.

skeggysteve

Last year my Wife was awarded higher rate DLA for an indefinite period.

She was awarded it based on the information she and her GP gave the DWP.

In November her DLA was stopped because an ATOS doctor had visited her and spoken to her for 15/20 minutes.

So she appealed - last week the appeal was heard - she lost.

At the appeal, apart from my Wife, were the three people on the appeal panel, a medical person, a legal person and someone from the DWP.

My wife appealed the DWP's decision based on the fact that the ATOS doctor did not see her for very long, he did not examine her, he made factual mistakes in his report, he made assumptions in his report and some of his hand writing was, even for the DWP, unable to be transferred to a typed transcript.

Now here the strange bit - at no time did the tribunal concern themselves with any of these points.

Basically they just questioned her about her current condition, even the tribunal panel questioned her.

If she'd known that the tribunal would be conducted in that way she wouldn't have bothered.

To take that matter forward seems very complex and my wife is not sure it's worth the effort.

You know the saying 'Don't let the bas**rd grind you down'?
Well it looks like they have.

Patronus

As far as I'm aware - the tribunal is only there to assess your condition. They are not there to look at 'lies' that the examiner could've told, or things the examiner should've done but didn't. It's an independent panel to make a decision based on what they see on the day and what you tell them about how your illness/condition/diagnosis affects your day to day life.

You can find out more about DLA appeals here: http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/disability-living-allowance-dla/dla-appeals

I could be wrong, my only experience and knowledge is with the ESA but I imagine the DLA tribunals are not that different.

skeggysteve

Patrous,
You may well be right but we thought different.

We thought that the tribunal was there to decided if the DWP had made the correct decision based on the facts at the time.

We were told that we couldn't introduce anything that had happened to my Wife after the date of the decision to stopped her DLA.

Edit to add: the tribunal was held by HM Courts & Tribunals Service.

nannytone_2

they never take into account anything that happens AFTER the date of the original decision.
if her condition has worsoned, then she should reapply.

as you have already appealed, this decision can only be overturned on a point of law ..... if the process has not been carried out in the correct manner.

you should really consider reapplying

rogerblack

skeggysteve wrote: »

Now here the strange bit - at no time did the tribunal concern themselves with any of these points.

If this was recent - within a month - you need to write (not phone) to the tribunals service, and ask for a 'written statement of reasons' on the decision.
This explains in more detail what was taken into account.

The tribunal must not:
Ignore relevant information.
Take into account irrelevant information.

Fundamentally - you need the statement of reasons to determine if they have done either of these. If they have - it may be grounds to appeal this decision.

The tribunal is supposed to 're-make' the original decision, as if it was sitting in the original decision-makers seat at the time.
It can do anything the original DM could do - but cannot look forward in time from the original decision.

The fact that the doctors report contained errors is not a fundamental problem.
In principle, this can be investigated and used as part, not all of the evidence.
For them not to do this, if they have simply gone off what the report says - knowing it's contested may be a problem.

And wow! A presenting officer.

HOWMUCH

You should have received a package containing what would be shown to the tribunal and you could have sent additional information to be considered at the tribunal. My friend pointed out yet again all the incorrect information which the ATOS health professional had made in their report which ended up being a 5 page letter and got his GP to do a supporting letter also pointing out the descrepancies in their report. On the day the panel had decided that he should have HRM and MRC b efore they saw him based on this information, after they had spoken with him and questioned his family he was awarded HRM and HRC for 3 years which infact 13 months had to be backdated because of the appeal, so he'd already used 13 months of the 36 month award.
As other's have already mentioned you could only appeal on a point of law now for the orignal DLA claim, but re apply for PIP if she still needs care and has mobility issues under a new claim.

skeggysteve

Very sorry for the late reply and many thanks to all that have responded.

To answer a few points:

My wife has written to the Tribunal service with a complaint about how the tribunal was conducted. I hope will reply with a reason for their decision as Roger suggested we ask for!

As Roger said we thought they would be looking at the ATOS report and re-making the decision based on our evidence and evidence from the DWP.
But that did not happen, they did acknowledge some of the mistakes the ATOS doctor made in his report but were more concerned about her current condition.
One question was 'How long does it take you to cross a road?'
How are you supposed to answer that?

HOWMUCH - yes we got the bundle of paperwork and replied with our evidence, including a consultants report.
The consultants report was seen by the ATOS doctor but he, the ATOS doc, put different information in his report.

Roger - yes the DWP sent a representative, who the tribunal people said 'just happened to be there'!
The tribunal then let the DWP person basically conduct the whole thing.

As for re-applying, well my wife wants to follow this through as she feels very strongly that the tribunal was conducted in the wrong way.
We've been together/married for nearly 30 years so I've learnt that the easiest way is to agree with her and, of course, support her.

nannytone_2

the tribunal isnt there to look through the ATOS report and to find discrepanceis.
the tribunal is a new look at the information that your wife has provided to see if the disagree with the original decision to stop her DLA ( to see if they think she meets the xriteria)
it does seem odd that someone from the DWP was there though as tribunals are meant to be totally independant

rogerblack

nannytone wrote: »

it does seem odd that someone from the DWP was there though as tribunals are meant to be totally independant

No it is not.
It used to be routine for the DWP to turn up - in the form of 'the presenting officer' - this was someone that outlined the DWPs position, and argued that their decision was correct.
Unfortunately, this rarely happens anymore.

nannytone_2

i'm quite suprosed.
back in the late 90's, my sons first job was as a clerk to the tribunal and he cany=t remember a DWP rep ever being present.

but i suppose the DWP mat be fighting their corner more vigourousky nowdays

Richie-from-the-Boro

It seems to be the case that the issue is 'oral or paper'. The % chance of a good outcome by +20% has been debated millions of times in this group over the years. Roger is correct in the old days of CAB representation at FtT's, a DWP presenting officer to defend the DM decision was always a given, that is not the case these days and it has been that way for a very long time.

However

The DM whose decision is at question can attend - usually however s/he is represented by [made by the relevant business unit] a DWP presenting officer is afforded all the same FtT's rights and powers as the DM who gave the original decision.

The O/P does not identify oral or paper, I agree with Rogers surprise exclamation of "And wow! A presenting officer". It could be pure coincidence that a presenting officer was 'on hand' at a 1T, or that the 'business unit' is now taking a more hands on targeted approach to choking off at source those appeals it feels it can 'more cost effectively' deal with.

BenefitBaby ?