Should I dispute a council Penalty Charge Notice?

willneil

Hey guys, wondering if anyone can offer advice on whether I have grounds to dispute or not?

I have been issued with a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) by Harrow Council for parking in a parking restriction zone outside a school.

The story:
I was parked outside my daughter's school (as I was picking her up early), which has a parking restriction zone that begins at 15:00.

The photo on the PCN shows the time to be 15:00:47, however, "I believe" I moved out from the restricted parking zone before 3pm (approx 2.59pm - based on the the pips and time I heard on Radio 4 just before the 3pm news, which was after I started driving off - I know its not exactly a technical benchmark that would be accepted by a court, but I'm assuming the Radio 4 news pips can't be too many seconds off).

In addition, the picture on the PCN was taken by a mobile CCTV van, which was actually parked on double yellow lines (well, the back wheels were anyway). I clearly remember this, because it was the first time I had seen one of these vans parked outside the school since my daughter started there, and was annoyed that it had parked on double yellows (because if it was a member of the public that had done that the council would have issued a parking ticket without hesitation!), HOWEVER, I have no photographic evidence to prove this.

If it helps, the picture in the PCN has the following text:
##########################
15:00:47Hrs BST GPS Locked
5th Jun 2013
Lat N51 34.80 Long W00 22.29
##########################

The questions I have are:
(1) Do the council have to get the van's timing mechanism calibrated regularly (regardless of whether its based on GPS time)?
(2) Are these van's allowed to be illegally parked when taking photographs used to issue PCN's?
(3) Do I have grounds to appeal based on No.2 above or can I appeal as I am disputing the time the PCN was issued?

Thanks for any help you can offer.

Neil

willneil

Forgot to add one more thing, the picture on the PCN shows my number plate but does not actually show that the car was actually parked in a restricted parking zone.

As I can't attach a picture for, the picture on the PCN can be found at :

img690 {dot} imageshack {dot} us {slash} img690 {slash} 3317 {slash} 3l8y {dot} jpg

(Sorry, for being so cryptic, its the only way I could get the forum accept a url)

(Note: I have removed the registration number - data protection and all that! ;~)

Thanks

Buzby

On your last point - it proves you were there - not that there is any requirement to show signage etc. It does appear the timing reference is taken from the GPS receiver, so unless you can counter with verifiable proof your vehicle was elsewhere (your SatNav?), an appeal based on listening to the 'pips' won't cut it.

This won't go to any Court, but an Adjudicator - but without doubt brinkmanship is a bad move. We're you on the zig-zags? These are invariably right at the entrance, and I would expect the idea was to have a clear view for crossing school kids, not have waiting cars block it.

It may be cheaper to pay up - as for the the enforcement vehicle doing likewise - it was working to discourage illegal misuse, so had an excuse. Since yours is simply picking up your child - quibbling over a few seconds I doubt will be successful.

Coupon-mad

Buzby wrote: »

... quibbling over a few seconds I doubt will be successful.

I think it could be successful, I would appeal that because it's only seconds and therefore not 100% reliable (smart car clocks have an error rate just like any other timer, camera or gadget!). The OP should post on pepipoo for further advice where he/she can post pictures directly on a new thread:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

And there is at least one other possible point of appeal, and that's the fact that a smart car is involved in parking enforcement at a place where a CEO on foot could issue a PCN, see this:

http://notomob.co.uk/discussions/index.php?topic=867.0

There may well be more points of appeal.

It is irrelevant really that the smart car was on double yellows because they'll say they were on Council business and in any case, double yellows are not a no-stopping zone as such (unlike zig-zags outside a school, in restricted hours!).

So it's not an important point about the double yellows IMHO. The other points about the restriction not having started, and the area not having been patrolled by a CEO on foot, are.

...and in future I would avoid the zig zags near a school, on weekdays.

willneil

Thanks guys for your replies, much appreciated.


@Coupon-mad
Thanks for the pepipoo link, I have asked the question there as well.

The notomob link is very useful I haven't gone through the whole page yet but plan for today is to go through and (try to) understand.

Once again, thank you for your advice.

neil

willneil

UPDATE:

I appealed, Harrow said "no", I followed through with PATAS appeal, I won on grounds of "de minimus" (Harrow own cctv footage shows my car moving away 15:01:25!)

@Coupon-mad
Thanks very much for the pepipoo link, proved to be very useful indeed.

Stroma

Well done to you