Company Car Drivers - What Should THEY Do?

bod1467

Hypothetical question, as I haven't been affected by this (as yet - I hope).

Usual advice is to wait for the NtK (in England. In Scotland it is to just ignore completely - currently).

But what is the advice for company car drivers, where a lease company (or the employer) may be the registered keeper? (Does it change whether in England or Scotland)?

I suspect it also depends on whether a NtD (ticket) was issued. (If it was ANPR then the driver may not even know about a pending "ticket").

Thanks in advance for any clarifications/advice.

Coupon-mad

If they get a ticket on the windscreen they should write and challenge it if in England/Wales. That hooks the PPC permanently in their direction so the person can then take it to POPLA (with forum help to word a winning appeal).

In Scotland/NI it's a difficult one, because you don't REALLY want the PPC to know who was driving because that's the person they have to aim their charge at. With a more litigious PPC a letter saying who was driving cn be a green light to them trying a small claim. But I would still say write to the PPC because you don't want the PPC to write to the lease/hire/company at all under any circumstances, since so often we see these companies just pay up.

In both cases I would say write just implying you are the driver but not actually saying it! So 'I have found this ticket on my car and...blah...blah' (anything, but not saying 'I was driving' or 'I parked and this is what happened'!).

ANPR is more difficult as that will go straight to the registered keeper/owner, so if a driver thinks they might get one as they 'overstayed' they should email their line manager and lease company and say 'A fake PCN from a private firm may be winging its way to you soon; as I am the driver it's my liability not yours so do not pay it, I will appeal it and remove the company from any potential liability. I will not be responsible for reimbursing you if someone pays it by mistake as clearly it won't be a real Local Authority ticket and is not a fine. Such an invoice is not issued under any statutory authority and isn't for the company to appeal or pay as long as the driver is made known. Let me know now if there are any queries about this but I would refer you to the BVRLA information about private parking 'tickets' and the fact they are the responsibility of the driver.'

nigelbb

What should happen in England & Wales is that employer's Fleet Management Dept. or the vehicle leasing company should inform the PPC that while they are the registered keeper of the vehicle in question that as it is a fleet/pool/lease car they are not the actual keeper as defined under Schedule 4 of the Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 i.e.

“keeper” means the person by whom the vehicle is kept
at the time the vehicle was parked, which in the case of a
registered vehicle is to be presumed, unless the contrary
is proved, to be the registered keeper

It's probable that the RK would be breaching the Data Protection Act if they inform the PPC who the keeper is but they could pass the NTK to the actual keeper who can then contact the PPC & admit to being the keeper but does not have to acknowledge who was the driver.

The RK of a lease car will know who the keeper is but has no more idea than the PPC who was the driver at the time of the parking event.

This is what should happen but of course whether it is what actually happens is another matter. The important thing is to deflect the PPC's attention from the RK to the actual keeper so that a robust appeal to POPLA can be made.

bod1467

Both excellent responses - thank you. I am in Scotland, but my company's fleet management are in England. Our car policy document has the following section:

Charges and Fines

Company vehicle drivers are responsible for paying all parking, speeding or other fines. Such fines must not be left unpaid as this will result in the authorities taking action against the Company. The Company will deduct any fines or penalties direct from the employee’s salary.

This is somewhat ambiguous as it doesn't differentiate between actual "fines" and PPC "invoices". I spy an email to our fleet management in the offing.

nigelbb

That policy isn't ambiguous at all as it only mentions 'fines' & 'penalties' & the invoices from PPCs are neither of those. NTKs should be handled in the same way as NIPs if you are flashed by a camera for speeding & forwarded on to the keeper to handle.

bod1467

You're assuming that my employer understands the difference between "fines & penalties" and "PPC invoices". I'm sure you know the saying about "assume"?

I've raised the question with fleet just now, so let's see what they say.

Buzby

A good number of them state they are not equipped to evaluate the veracity of claims, and to do so could result in an incorrect decision. They therefore refuse to pass judgement, opting to pay the initial demand and seek repayment from the client plus their service fee

nigelbb

Buzby wrote: »

A good number of them state they are not equipped to evaluate the veracity of claims, and to do so could result in an incorrect decision. They therefore refuse to pass judgement, opting to pay the initial demand and seek repayment from the client plus their service fee

Unquestioningly paying is passing judgement especially when a Notice To Keeper unlike a council parking ticket specifically gives them the option of not paying & providing the name & address of the driver.

Guys_Dad

nigelbb wrote: »

Unquestioningly paying is passing judgement especially when a Notice To Keeper unlike a council parking ticket specifically gives them the option of not paying & providing the name & address of the driver.

The problem, Nigel, is that the percentage of Fleet Managers or HR Departments don't know about POFA 2012, BPA, what is a "fine" as against parking charge etc etc.

(I remember you coming on here with your charge from MK and have observed your knowledge of all of this parking nonsense grow over a few months, as I think you have said yourself).

So we have to deal with an employee/employer situation where the employer sets the rules. Most people wouldn't want to be entering a discussion about the nuances of "fines" -v- "scam parking charges" or could be bothered to gen up on POFA 2012.

I would go with c-m's general advice but would change the letter to employer to say quote the relevant bit from POFA that tells them what they are expected to do and to show them the letter that driver has written to PPC admitting that they were the keeper at the relevant time and that the employer is out of the equation. Also tell the employer that you accept any costs arising from this, but will deal with it personally.

bod1467

Your last paragraph is fine if there is a ticket/NtD. If not then it all depends on what processes/procedures are in place with the company. I have contacted my fleet department and have asked the relevant question(s). I'll update this thread when I get a response.

photography_2

When my Company Secretary received a NtK as RK they had the foresight to contact me directly as the 'owner' of the vehicle before doing anything with the paperwork which is luckily when I happened upon MSE and PepiPoo.

Our company didn't have a clue that it was effectively a spectulative invoice, nor did I. They do now thanks to the forums and can redirect the PCNs to the drivers directly