What is a fair milage claim for an executor?

new3ca

I am wondering if someone can help me please, I have an immediate problem with answering a letter from my mothers solicitor agreeing to some executor expenses. [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]I do not wish for anyone to be out-of-pocket, but I believe that any claim has to be reasonable.[/FONT]


My mother who lived near the North Wales seaside, died at Christmas eighteen months ago and in her will she named her solicitor and a niece as the joint executors/trustees. The niece was also a beneficiary getting ten thousand pounds and all the household contents.


In June 2012 after the property was provisionally sold, the niece put in her claim for executor expenses. She has claimed postage etc and has claimed Van hire for one weekend to remove furniture/goods (£96 ) and has claimed for postage, legal letter signing etc., which are all reasonable expenses.


She also claimed for hotel accommodation (£96) plus travelling expenses (296 miles @ 40p = £118-40) for two weekends for her and her husband because she found it too distressing to stay in the empty property (I didn't think she could claim hotel expenses for her husband). In addition she claimed for six other trips (in the words written in the claim “most trips were to check the property”) totalling a further 920 miles at 40p per mile – a claim of £368. If she were not also a beneficiary I would say OK she needs something to compensate her for the unpaid administration work, but I felt she was taking the Micky claiming 40p per mile to check the property during school holidays and weekends.


I wrote to the solicitor saying that I thought claiming £368 against the estate for going to the seaside and spending a few minutes each time checking a bungalow was excessive, but suggested that if they claimed the HMRC rate of 25p a mile (£230) for the disputed “checking” trips it should still cover her out of pocket expenses and I would be more likely to agree to it. I said I didn't believe all the trips to check the property were necessary, and said that when my father-in-law died, we had left our phone number with the neighbours and asked them to look after the property, additionally we phoned them regularly (gave them a bottle of alcohol and a few bob for their trouble), and that worked perfectly well. I asked the solicitor if he thought this was a fair claim, but I received no reply.


The house sale fell through and it fell through again later, because in spite of claiming for clearing the property, it was left in a mess. It has now apparently just sold for what is hopefully the final time (£45k below original asking price, but that is another story to follow up when I get the full details), and she has put in a revised travel claim through the solicitor. I notice that she made eight trips to the property in the first six months, and only one in the next twelve (something I said about excessive trips sank in then), but she is still insisting on charging at 40p per mile for all nine trips.


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]My understanding is that executors cannot decide to [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]automatically [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]claim for their mileage at the higher HMRC rate because it benefits them, it has to be an agreed amount. I believe that the lower HMRC rate of £0.25 a mile is nearer to being the appropriate rate to be charged for some of the “checking” trips. Have I got something wrong with my understanding of what is and is not reasonable for an executor to claim?[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Sorry it was so long winded, but didn't want to miss anything important.
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jonesMUFCforever

A couple of things to consider ... would an estate agent have charged more or less to ''look'' after a property in the circumstances you describe?

Is it that she is a beneficiary that is causing you to take this stance/

I don't know whether the claim is fair or not - but I do know if you dispute it and she goes to a solicitor - which estate will she claim on then??

(Pay up under gritted teeth is my suggestion, but at the same time, write telling her that no more expenses will be considered.)

ioscorpio

The HMRC rate went up to 45p in April 2011, so you're lucky she did not charge that. If the niece was inheriting the furniture, why did she charge for the van hire? The fact her husband went with her is acceptable, a single room probably would not have been much cheaper than a double, but that depends where she stayed, hotel, travel lodge, B & B.

Was there no way you could have checked the property yourself, or liaised with the Estate Agent?

As already said, the solicitors costs will go up if you query it through him for extra letters and time. Could not not speak again to your niece?

John_Pierpoint

Use Zoopla to investigate teh (falling?) value of houses in North Wales - obviously a dated stripped house, with untended garden, will probably be the cheapest in the street.
Beware of Estate Agents doing a put through deal to their favourite local developer he is an ideal cash buyer [and the house will be earning another sales commission within 6 months].

The insurance policy will almost certainly have a clause saying that the property has to be checked at least monthly.
In theory this task could have been subcontracted to a local estate agent.
There would have been mail piling up on the mat that needed investigating, in theory that could have been redirected, but my experience is that this can be unreliable.
The biggest danger is that local thieves/squatters will realise that the house is empty.

In a similar situation, were there no need to carry more than fitted in a modest rucksack - I was happy to use public transport (train & bus) and stay in the empty house.
I also put in man weeks of work for nothing. [other than my percentage of the residuary].

Just ask yourself how much the job would have cost if the niece had refused to act and left everything to the solicitor = presumably her bequest did not include a clause along the lines of "if she proves my will".

There is usually a load of stuff no better than junk. left behind when someone dies - who disposed of that? What did they charge? Where did it go? Did husband sit in a deck chair on the beach when all this was happening ?

Without looking it up, what is today's price per litre for petrol in North Wales?
There were a lot of representations to HMRC from the likes of the AA to demonstrate that the absorption cost of running a car is greater than £0.40 per mile.
If niece had not owned a car, would you have been happy for her to rent one for the job ?
What have you done since the funeral?
Did you insist on coming along to help and organise a "garage sale"?

This I suppose leads us to ask "Why was your mother stupid enough to appoint an expensive solicitor and someone who is not inheriting the residuary to be her executors?"

Errata

Who would have done all the running about if the niece hadn't done it?

cinderfella

Shoot me down on this but I seem to remember that some house policies are only valid if someone attends the premises weekly.
It is not a fun job sorting out a house in these circumstances. Sounds as if she has done an unpleasant job at a reasonable cost.

pollypenny

My aunt lives exactly 300 miles from us door to door. It takes 6 hours to get there and we try to go twice a year.

However, when it came to POA and her will, we decided it was best to have a local solicitor, regardless if expense.

I have one cousin who lives an hour away from our aunt, but she was unwilling to share to POA.

Reluctantly we decided it could be too much of a commitment.

Good on your cousin for going back and fore, such a distance.

Could I ask why it is not you who is doing all the work?

slopemaster

When I was an executor (and beneficiary) I initially just claimed for petrol, but the solicitor dealing with the will advised me I was entitled to claim 50p/mile to cover the wear and tear on the car.

new3ca

"Is it that she is a beneficiary that is causing you to take this stance/" No, but I know that she has ripped off other family members (including her own mother) in the past, and there are other things bubbling up in the background that have me very concerned. Also I believe that one of my sisters should have been another beneficiary, but the niece had been bad mouthing her to my mother for some time even though my niece and sister had not met for over forty five years (my mother kept them apart for reasons I won't go into).

"If the niece was inheriting the furniture, why did she charge for the van hire?" - Good question, but I'm happy to pay for the van and mileage because she used the van to remove some rubbish - just not all the rubbish.

"Was there no way you could have checked the property yourself, or liaised with the Estate Agent?" No, she made it clear to me and them that she was dealing with them and only one person (her) was to have a key (makes me wonder why, but there you go, my paranoia creeping in again ).

"Why was your mother stupid enough to appoint an expensive solicitor and someone who is not inheriting the residuary to be her executors?" Because she was over 90 when she made her last will and she didn't tell anyone that she had been to write it. She had become easily led and I understand she went on her own to the solicitors. Unfortunately showing that she had become unstable is difficult to prove a couple of years after the event, especially if she hadn't been treated for that condition by a doctor. The previous will written many years earlier when her trusted friend was with her was much more sensible and was fair to all other family members. As it happens I came out of it better than several people who were unfairly omitted (including her daughter, and her two grandchildren), although another daughter that she thought of poorly was included. I am afraid that there are many more questions than answers!

"I also put in man weeks of work for nothing." I was prepared to do that, but her niece wanted to do everything herself. I was also prepared to pay out money "up front" for decorators, new carpets and a gardener to keep the value of the house up (providing prior agreement was made for that money to be repaid before division of assets).

"Beware of Estate Agents doing a put through deal to their favourite local developer he is an ideal cash buyer [and the house will be earning another sales commission within 6 months]." I already know estate agent acts as secretary for solicitor (same building) when his own secretary is busy - which I don't find a healthy relationship. I am also trying to find out more about the sale of the property i.e. who bought it and relationship (if any) with estate agent/solicitor.

"Who would have done all the running about if the niece hadn't done it?" - Me, I live less than an hour and a half away and I would have been happy to do so. I still go up that way quite often for a day out. I have made a slight detour past the property several times in the past year or so just to make sure there is no obvious damage to the outside.

missile

If it were me I would not have claimed expenses, but these seem very reasonable to me.

The niece has given her time for free and could have employed a professional to do the work, which would have been far more.

matelodave

I've seen more people lose money due to petty squabbles than to get it agreed in the first place. Once you start involving a solicitor 40p a mile pales into insignificance when compared to his charges when you both start getting him involved.

I've just done my Mum's probate which included selling her house 100 miles away. For visits to sort out estate agents, checking and disposing of furniture I put down what it cost = about 16p a mile each way(£32 a trip). I detailed all expenses, without trying to profit in any way. I didn't charge for phone calls or postage but expensed other costs. As far as my three brothers were concerned it saved them the effort and time but they didn't feel they needed to query any of it.

As said above, how much effort have you put in to help the situation