Sitting in first class without ticket, could it cost me my job?

BarleyGB

Would really appreciate some help:

This morning I was stopped by a revenue collection officer in 1st class, I was travelling 3 stops between London St Pancras and London Blackfriards (8 minute journey). I had has swiped in using my Oyster Card.I was in First Class as at the train was busy and at the time I believed that first class was de-restricted in central London at peak times, I was sure I had read this on a notice or heard an announcement. I now understand that this was incorrect and I acknowledge this error.I was asked for a ticket by the inspector and I explained my understanding. I was then advised I would need to pay a £20 penalty.

I was asked for my name and address which I wrote on in the inspectors book. Shortly after this I was asked if I had provided the correct details and I realised I had not. I had incorrectly written the incorrect house number. The inspector told me I had provided false details and thus I understand a prosecution may now be pending?

Now I know what youre all thinking, and so did the ticket inspector, I insisted to him and do so to you that I hadn’t intended to provide false details. My account for this was that I was quite embarrassed having been confronted in the first class carriage and wasn’t concentrating, I think I started writing the date (perhaps believing it was 15th), I was also distracted during the process of writing my details by the inspector asking me questions as well as the embarrassment I was feeling.It was not my intention to provide false details and I do not believe I did, immediately when the inspector questioned my about my name and address I confirmed my mistake verbally.

Im now very concerned about the potential consequences, not least as the inspector was very insinuating and didn’t allow me to explain myself correctly, it just seemed he was out to throw the book at me. I now understand I could bebe prosecued? (details at bottom from First Capital Connect Revenue Collection Policy)

I work in a highly regulated financial environment and any prosecutions or court case will impact my career and prevent me from finding further work. Im concerned about the potential wider consequences! . Could this incident work against me, how will it be recorded? criminal offence, potential file which will show up on detailed CRB checks?
I accept that I was mistaken and wrongly travelled in First Class but im keen to ensure the consequences do not get out of proportion to the events. In particular the accusation of providing incorrect details (I don’t understand why he thought I would do that?)

Im now worried ill be potentially prosecuted for what was in essence a misunderstanding and being a bit flustered/distracted by the whole situation.

Questions:

1) What do you think is likely to happen now? Is it likely that the Prosecutions Team will offer me a settlement e.g. £20

2) What can I do to avoid a prosecution/going to court or records being kept that will show up on any CRB/Court records checks

3) Do you know how the process works re prosecution, can you settle and avoid court/records being kept?

4) Does this situation potentially end up with a court record/impact on CRB searches

5) What should I do next?

6) Could a solicitor help?

Thank you so much, im really worried, seems a rediculous situation to be in but I accept I did wrong.


Prosecutions
There are a number of situations where we may choose toproceed with a prosecution, such as:
• Where we believe you have intentionally or fraudulentlytravelled without the correct ticket
• Where you refuse to pay, or cannot pay, for your journey• Where you provide false details to us whilst being issued aPenalty Fare
• Where you have received a high number of Penalty Farespreviously, and we therefore decide that you intended toavoid payment
• Where we believe you have altered dates on tickets (includingCarnet tickets)
Where we decide to prosecute, our authorised collector will caution you and ask if you understand the caution. A statement will then be taken and you will be asked to sign it.Once completed, a copy will be sent to our prosecutions team, who will write to you asking for your version of events.When you receive this letter please do not ignore it. This is youropportunity to explain what happened so that we can make afull assessment on whether or not we should refer the matter to a court.

gardner1

your post is to long..i gave up half way down

wealdroam

BarleyGB wrote: »

What should I do next?

You best bet is to post your questions here:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=152

worried_jim

I was in First Class as at the train was busy and at the time I believed that first class was de-restricted in central London at peak times- :rotfl:

I was also distracted during the process of writing my details by the inspector asking me questions as well as the embarrassment I was feeling.It was not my intention to provide false details and I do not believe I did, immediately when the inspector questioned my about my name and address I confirmed my mistake verbally. Rumbled!

Poor, poor excuses.

itch_for_a_glitch

"Now I know what youre all thinking"

Go on, what am I thinking ?

I'm thinking you wont do it again.

thelawnet

Basically the way it works is this:

* FCC will write you a letter threatening prosecution
* If you ignore this, they will take you to court, and you will lose and be fined around £400+ (FCC basically don't get any of this - just court costs)
* If you call/write to them, you can offer to settle and they are very likely to accept (assuming this is the first time you have been caught), because this money will go to them. £20 is long gone, I would expect to pay something in the region of £100.

So no need to panic yet, just wait for their letter, and offer to settle.

No need for a solicitor, best option is just offer to settle, in the unlikely event that they don't want to, you might feel it money well spent.

opinions4u

I think you should use a standard font next time you post.

ValHaller

BarleyGB wrote: »

I had has swiped in using my Oyster Card.I was in First Class as at the train was busy and at the time I believed that first class was de-restricted in central London at peak times, I was sure I had read this on a notice or heard an announcement. I now understand that this was incorrect and I acknowledge this error.I was asked for a ticket by the inspector and I explained my understanding.

At times of disruption, trains are declassified - and an announcement will be given - this is not a general dispensation, it is purely for the period of disruption. The other thing to be aware of is that certain FCC trains - to or from Sutton - are always derestricted as the service is 2nd class only

Can you post the details of the exact train? I realise this may compromise you here as FCC may read this.

BarleyGB

Im pretty sure this train wasnt declassifed, the announcement I refer to may have been historic and certainly wasnt on the day. It was my misconception about declassification being standard in Central London that led to this issue.

I accept that I have done wrong, ive now spoken to a Prosecution representative who has recommended I wait for their letter and respond with my side. I was advised that prosecutions usually take place but they do consider settling and withdrawing the prosecution on a case by case basis.

I guess my only possible mitigatoin is to accept responsibility, apologise and ask if I can settle directly with them including their costs etc. The big problem I have is that being prosecuted will likely prevent me from working in the industry im skilled at and have been in for 19 years. At all costs I need to show that the full impact of a a prosecution may not be proportionate to the offence.

Any advice appreciated.

Also, is there a potential defence that prosecution would not be in the public interest?

thelawnet

BarleyGB wrote: »

Im pretty sure this train wasnt declassifed, the announcement I refer to may have been historic and certainly wasnt on the day. It was my misconception about declassification being standard in Central London that led to this issue.

I accept that I have done wrong, ive now spoken to a Prosecution representative who has recommended I wait for their letter and respond with my side. I was advised that prosecutions usually take place but they do consider settling and withdrawing the prosecution on a case by case basis.

I guess my only possible mitigatoin is to accept responsibility, apologise and ask if I can settle directly with them including their costs etc. The big problem I have is that being prosecuted will likely prevent me from working in the industry im skilled at and have been in for 19 years. At all costs I need to show that the full impact of a a prosecution may not be proportionate to the offence.

Any advice appreciated.

Also, is there a potential defence that prosecution would not be in the public interest?

Lol.

Your interest is not the public interest!

They will write you a letter, offer to settle when it arrives and stop panicking until then.

Stigy

They could go straight to court with this, but most TOCs won't prosecute for a first offence. If they believed that the address issue was a delliberate attempt to avoid contact, they'll more than likely be less lenient though. It'll cost you more than £20 if they do settle, but anything's better than court for you I guess?

The actual impact of a prosecution against you much depends on on what the charge is. For example, if charged under Byelaw 19 of the National Railway Byelaws (2005), the maximum fine is £1000 plus court costs etc. In reality, the norm is a fine equating to half the average wage (£200), 10% victim surcharge (so £20 in most cases...This goes to victims of crime charity), FCC's costs (around £100 I'd imagine) and any compensation owed (the fare, or difference in fare in this case).

If charged with fare evasion (s.5(3)a of Regulation of Railways Act 1889.....And more than likely 5(3)c in this case, if there's enough evidence to suggest false address too) the max fine is still £1000, but imprisonment is possible on subsequent offences of same nature (n/a in your case). The penalties are typically twice that of Byelaws appart from the TOCs cost and compo (£400 fine etc).

Byelaws are non-recordable on Police National Computer, RRA1889 offences are. So, where all of the possible convictions are criminal matters, only the latter would possible affect your job as there's no paper trail. However, if on a CRB you're asked if you've ever been convicted of a criminal offence, you'd be lying if you said 'no'....

Reference the details, something like a door number could be argued by yourself due to stress etc, and unless you admitted your intention was to avoid further contact from FCC and thus the fare due, I'd imagine they'd not bother with that one personally.