Aunt dies - No Will - help please.

meerustar

Firstly, hello everyone. First time posting on the MRF board ... seems a busy place.

I'll try and cut this long story short. (I write all I know that MIL has told me)


My MIL had an Aunt who died in January. Aunt never married, had no children, had only 1 brother who has died, but doted on her 4 nieces and 1 nephew. This is her closest family.

Aunt died leaving no Will. (Well apparently there is a will but it was never signed:rolleyes: ). One of the nieces died a couple of years ago.

Now the Aunt used to live with a niece and it seems that she bought half of the house the niece still lives in a few years back to help her out financially.

This niece (who no one else in the family really talks to as she is always ripping them off) has phoned her brothers and sisters and told them that she is winding up her aunts estate and that she needs a letter off each of them saying something along the lines of

'I ...xxxxx... give consent that ...(this niece)... is entitles to all ....(aunts) ... estate ... etc' and she said they need to write it so she is entitled to all her aunts estate.

I went round to MIL's earlier and said DON'T DARE SEND THAT LETTER'!!!!!

My MIL asked her sister why she needed this letter and shouldn't she first see a solicitor or anything and sister said no ... just write the letter and sent it direct to her.

Now there's obviously something fishy going on and we can't work it out. The sister refuses to say why she needs the letter etc, but we can see that they will be signing away any rights to the aunts estate that they may have.

So, if (we are guessing), the aunt paid for half of the house, are the remaining family entitled to a share of her house and she will have to pay them off?

Also, as one of the nieces died a couple of years ago, does the estate get still get split 5 ways with the daughter of the neice getting her share?

Also, if none of them write this letter, then how do they themselves find out what the aunt had to leave in her estate and how do they go about getting a share.

I have to add that none of the family are moneygrabbers (apart from this one niece) but they all did love their Aunt and know she would be mortified if this niece ended up with everything ... she fleeced her enough when she was alive.

Any advice anyone? I'm guessing you'll all agree with me for my MIL not to send this letter, but any advice on what to do from here.

Much appreciated, Thankyou.

savingsara_2

Yeah I think your MIL is right about not sending that letter!!!

If it was me I would be getting in touch with the citizens advice bureau, if they can't help at least they should be able to point you in the direction of someone who can, and hopefully won't charge alot. Intestacy case are pretty much always messy and drawn out though I'm afraid.

mookiandco

If Aunt died intestate (no will) and the nephews and nieces are her only surviving relatives , then her estate should be split equally between them. The half of the property owned by Aunt, does not automatically transfer to the niece unless they hold it as joint tenants. If it is held as tenants in common then Aunts half of house forms part of her estate. You should be able to tell by getting official copy entries of the house from the Land Registry.

Do not send any letter giving up rights to the estate. If your mum is entitled then she should get what is rightfully hers.

pippamannequin

The only bit i know the answer to is the bit you asked about splitting 5 ways and as having personal experience of this yes it will be! My Dads cousin passed away, never married, the estate went up to her mother who was my grandmothers sister then back down to my grandmothers sons and daughter, of those that had passed away (my father) the remaining came to me. Hasten to add by the time estates like these are split this way, with costs etc they end up being a few hundred pounds so dont expect there to be much left at the end of it.
Maybe the lady with the house is concerned that something like this could mean little to the inheriting relatives in the respect of a few hundred pounds each but could mean she ends up losing her home, something that your mother in laws aunt obviously saw fit to help her with despite others opinions.

Errata

Hope this helps, I googled for it. Loads more info on intestacy if you have a google. Basically, if auntie owned half the property and left no will THE GOVERNMENT decides who gets what (see below). Looks like the lady is trying to pull a fast one. Seek advice from the CAB asap, as auntie may have owned all or some of the furniture, china, carpets, lawn mower etc and if so they also form part of her estate.

Intestacy Laws England and Wales
By admin
Information about what happens to your estate if you die without making a will.

Making a Will is relatively straightforward and not very expensive. However, in spite of this, seven out of ten people in the UK die without a Will. This often causes delays, hardship and worry - and even costly legal bills can result if there is confusion and disagreement among those left behind.

Should you die without a Will or if your Will is deemed to be invalid (e.g. if it wasn’t completed or signed correctly) then you are said to have died intestate.

This results in the law deciding who gets what of your estate.

See the full post for fuller details of who gets what if you don’t make a Will.


Dying without leaving a Will could mean…

In the absence of a signed Will the government dictates who gets what of your estate, depending on your domestic circumstances:

Married with Children (separated people are treated under these rules as still being married)

1) Your spouse gets:

a) car and house contents, plus
b) first £125,000 of your estate, plus
c) 6% interest on half of any surplus (only interest, your spouse cannot touch the capital)

2) Your children (stepchildren get nothing) get:

a) half of any excess over £125,000 outright, plus
b) the other half of the excess when your spouse has also died

Married with No Children but with Parents and/or Brothers and Sisters

1) Your spouse gets:

a) car and house contents, plus
b) first £200,000 of your estate, plus
c) half of any excess over £200,000 outright

2) Your parents or (if none alive) your brothers and sisters get:

a) Balance i.e. half of any excess over £200,000 outright

Married with No children and No Parents or Brothers and Sisters

Your spouse gets everything

Single, Widowed or Divorced (but not separated)

Everything goes to your children (if any), otherwise to your parents (if alive), otherwise to your brothers and sisters (or their children), otherwise your grandparents (if alive), otherwise your uncles and aunts (or their children), otherwise to the government!

This information is provided by Will Drafters Ltd. For further information click here then click the Will Facts Section





Important Note

If you have a co-habiting partner, he/she will get none of your estate even if you have been together for 50 years or more

meerustar

Thanks for the info so far.

I have been on the Land Registry site and downloaded a copy of the title deed thingys (sorry) and the aunts name is NOT one of the registered owners. (Thanks mookiandco for that piece of advice).

So seeing as though the 'sisters' house is safe, there must be some other reason she wants the rest of the family to sign their rights away. AFAIK, there isn't much money to be shared, so unsure now as to where to go from here.

Thanks

Errata

OK, so no house ! But your aunt will have left an estate even if it's a few bits of china and costume jewellery. Or even a Holbein in the attic! Seems to me it would be sensible for everyone to know what the estate is made up of before they sign it away especially if she has a reputation for ripping people off.
It seems a bit odd. Most families who find themselves in this kind of situation ask rellys if they would like 'the 1930's bedroom suite or the good jam pan' to remember auntie by.
And of course the bottom line is that the niece isn't entitled to all the estate!

TheWaltons_3

All I can say is definitely to do not sign anything away... and I can't believe the audacity of the niece!

Has the ink dried on the Death certificate yet... or did she die a while ago?

meerustar

She died at the end of January, so ink almost dry but not quite.

I will make sure that MIL does not sign away her rights without finding out more.

Thanks

paddy's_mum

Nip along to your local library and see if they have, or can get, one of the good books on wills/probate/administering an estate. I'm pretty sure Which publish one. If not, any good bookshop should be able to help.

If the old lady lived with the niece and was cared for by her, it could be that the lady feels that what small (?) estate there might be should come to her in recognition of that.

However, open-ness, communication and discussion are the order of the day if ill feeling is to be avoided. I agree that to sign right now is premature - you really need to arm yourself with full information first. Good luck.

meluca

Dying without a will (Intestate) can end up quite complicated for the relatives left to deal with the estate.... depending on what the estate consists of. The estate CANNOT be touched till Letters of Administration has been granted, any relative can obtain this if they want to act as a personal representative. As the estate could involve part of a house and nobody seems sure of what else there could be I would suggest you get your MIL to see a solicitor asap who could then find out :-

A. If Letters of Administration has been granted to anyone

B. What the Estate consists of

but most of all DO NOT let your MIL sign any letters giving up her rights to anything.