*** reclaiming bank charges

AndrewLivingston

I simply cannot hold my tongue any longer.

I've read countless tales of people who simply CANNOT run their accounts according to the terms and conditions of their contract with their bank.

Then people complain that some banks are closing their account directly after challenging the "illegal" (note: NO BANK HAS RULED THAT THESE CHARGES ARE ILLEGAL - in fact, the Lloyds TSB judgement is IN FACT a precursor to the courts finding them in fact legal).

My God people! If you run your account in such a way that cheques and DDs bounce, then you are in fact committing a crime: fraud. I am extremely surprised that none of the banks have cottoned on to this. Most of the cases in the press make this abundantly clear. If I write a cheque, knowing it is going to bounce, I have committed a crime. There can be no argument there.

What irks me the most is that I now have the prospect of having to automatically pay an account fee (regardless of the account I have), or cheque/ATM fees, because there are countless idiots out there who are jumping the bandwagon and following a few greedy and misguided fools who thought they were clever enough to bring the cases in the first place.

Martin's thread (http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cgi-bin/viewnews.cgi?newsid1141050760,24632) misses the mark completely, and sets him up for all kinds of problems should the banks fight back (and in this case, I agree with them). Bank charges are charges for servicing an account that has gone into arrears, not a penalty.

But what if they are penalties: there is a much quoted figure of between £2 and £3 to deal with a bounced cheque. Hmmm... I guess if you consider the actual time the accounting system spends on dealing with the charge, perhaps. But what about the system development? What about the necessary quality assurance checks? What about the debit exposure the bank now has that it didn't before you bounced that cheque? What about the call centre staff that have to handle your senseless complaints? More than £2 to £3 methinks. This makes the charges high, but not illegal.

I have had several charges against my account in the past 10 years. But I never complained, because at the end of the day IT WAS MY FAULT. No one else's. Mine. Whether I have gone over .03p or whatever, this is not the point. There is a post by someone who states that no matter how much money he put in his account, it was never enough for all of the charges. PUT MORE MONEY IN THEN. You are living beyond your means. Or, did you think about speaking with the bank about how to make it right? Or did you just sit back and !!!!! about how unfair it is that you can't get your finances right, and then shift the responsibility elsewhere.

I guess the point of my post is that there are plenty of things to get het up about. Bank charges are not one of them. Learn how to run your account, or pay the price. It's pretty simple.

Think on this: if the charge for going overdrawn or bouncing a DD were £2 to £3, how many people would say this: "Oh, I can't afford those (shoes, CDs, clothes, whatever) because I'll be overdrawn. Oh well, it only costs £2/£3 what the hell". It's not sustainable and you know it. But I guess you simply don't care. You're all in it for yourselves and you don't care what the ramifications are.

Thank you

tomstickland

So you've created a new account just to start this rant.

mo1_2

is this a wind up?

Gashman

AndrewLivingston wrote: »

I simply cannot hold my tongue any longer.

I've read countless tales of people who simply CANNOT run their accounts according to the terms and conditions of their contract with their bank.

Then people complain that some banks are closing their account directly after challenging the "illegal" (note: NO BANK HAS RULED THAT THESE CHARGES ARE ILLEGAL - in fact, the Lloyds TSB judgement is IN FACT a precursor to the courts finding them in fact legal).

My God people! If you run your account in such a way that cheques and DDs bounce, then you are in fact committing a crime: fraud. I am extremely surprised that none of the banks have cottoned on to this. Most of the cases in the press make this abundantly clear. If I write a cheque, knowing it is going to bounce, I have committed a crime. There can be no argument there.

What irks me the most is that I now have the prospect of having to automatically pay an account fee (regardless of the account I have), or cheque/ATM fees, because there are countless idiots out there who are jumping the bandwagon and following a few greedy and misguided fools who thought they were clever enough to bring the cases in the first place.

Martin's thread (http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cgi-bin/viewnews.cgi?newsid1141050760,24632) misses the mark completely, and sets him up for all kinds of problems should the banks fight back (and in this case, I agree with them). Bank charges are charges for servicing an account that has gone into arrears, not a penalty.

But what if they are penalties: there is a much quoted figure of between £2 and £3 to deal with a bounced cheque. Hmmm... I guess if you consider the actual time the accounting system spends on dealing with the charge, perhaps. But what about the system development? What about the necessary quality assurance checks? What about the debit exposure the bank now has that it didn't before you bounced that cheque? What about the call centre staff that have to handle your senseless complaints? More than £2 to £3 methinks. This makes the charges high, but not illegal.

I have had several charges against my account in the past 10 years. But I never complained, because at the end of the day IT WAS MY FAULT. No one else's. Mine. Whether I have gone over .03p or whatever, this is not the point. There is a post by someone who states that no matter how much money he put in his account, it was never enough for all of the charges. PUT MORE MONEY IN THEN. You are living beyond your means. Or, did you think about speaking with the bank about how to make it right? Or did you just sit back and !!!!! about how unfair it is that you can't get your finances right, and then shift the responsibility elsewhere.

I guess the point of my post is that there are plenty of things to get het up about. Bank charges are not one of them. Learn how to run your account, or pay the price. It's pretty simple.

Think on this: if the charge for going overdrawn or bouncing a DD were £2 to £3, how many people would say this: "Oh, I can't afford those (shoes, CDs, clothes, whatever) because I'll be overdrawn. Oh well, it only costs £2/£3 what the hell". It's not sustainable and you know it. But I guess you simply don't care. You're all in it for yourselves and you don't care what the ramifications are.

Thank you

:T Self Righteous Wa**er of The Week :T

Stephen_Leak

As Voltaire said, "I may disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".

May I use my case as a example. I am reclaiming CC late payment charges. I paid late. It was my fault. I do not expect not to be charged. I do not expect any other customer to have to pay for my mistake.

However ...

By law these charges can only reflect the cost involved. They don't. They are unlawfully high. I have only broken a credit agreement. The company has punished me for that. But in doing so the company has broken the law. I have therefore been wronged. I have a right to justice. As the company won't say how much their cost is, the law says that the whole charge is unlawful.

Now, I do agree that just the cost (for example, £2?) would not be a disincentive against late payment. Just capping the charges at this level wouldn't help either the companies or customers.

My suggested, simple solution to this legal and consumer fiasco is that the law must be changed to allow the companies to charge an agreed maximum amount (for example, £10?) as a disincentive against late payments, going overdrawn, etc. If I were to be charged £12 for paying late under this new legislation, I could not have any problem with this, apart from being annoyed at myself for being a fool.

Back in the real world, I have also set up Direct Debits on all my credit card accounts to avoid ever being charged again in future.

lynzpower

alliance & leicester managed to agree a payment that was not valid on my account and completely erroneous a few weeks ago.

It bounced my overdraft.

They charged me 230 quid.

They accepted they sohuld not have agreed to pay the DD- given that i HAD NO CONTACT WITH THE COMPANY AND HAD NOT AGREED THE PAYMENT

they have refunded the DD under the DD gurantee. leaving me to pick up the tab for 230 quid.

FAIR?

deary65

Know one is complaining about bank charges per se, It's the level at which they are set, which is to high. That forms the bases of the legal argument.

chartreuse_2

lynzpower wrote: »

alliance & leicester managed to agree a payment that was not valid on my account and completely erroneous a few weeks ago.

Funny that you should mention A&L - I'm currently trying to get them to refund £75 quid that they stung me for after some crooks emptied my account and a DD came due before I could get more money in.

I'm trying to get them to agree to waive the charges by phone, but so far, all they'll say is "You're eligible for the charges." I dread to think what the judge would say if this one ever gets to court.

Edinburghlass_2

Welcome to MSE Andrew. I have edited your thread title as posted on every page of MSE.....

Please be nice to all MoneySavers, there is no such thing as a stupid question and even if you disagree, courtesy helps

AlexisV

Why do you keep re-registering and reposting your tripe? You need to get out more.

natweststaffmember

Andrew, please calm down, have you seen the ghosts of people who have killed themselves over bank charges, have you seen the effect that bank charges have on the hardest hit people, have you heard how much the banks have repaid? When you have, then you have a right to speak and please can you give me the law that states bank charges are legal. I think Martin and MSE, the Consumer Action Group, Penalty Charges, Legal-Beagles and other sites may be able to teach you the law on unlawful charges.
Did you watch Whistleblower by the way? Yorkshire bank charges were shown to cost at best £2.50(including all associated costs).

I think what has been lost in the process is the trust that those of us who work in banks once had. We answer more queries with regards to charges than ever before.
Let us be honest now. People would accept 2 to 3 quid for a Direct debit of say £3 but they are stung by £30-£40 in charges which may then draw further charges for going over the overdraft by maybe 50p. Is it really fair? Is it? Is it? Tell me how this is fair if you are on benefits and you thought you could only live on bread and water for a week. Is that fair?

If it is fair then i am flying snail!!!!!!!