ISP debt demand out of the blue

DonQuibeats

Hello

[Reposting this message that I originally put in the internet service provider forum, as it may be more relevant here.]

I have been stunned this morning by an unexpected letter from Vodafone / Demon Internet / Thus / whatever they're called nowadays and would welcome any opinions and whether I have a leg to stand on or not.

I have been a Demon (ISP) customer for 18 years and although there have been some periods of very poor service in that time, they've mostly been fine so I've stuck with them. (Not any more.)

Now I've received a legitimate-looking letter demanding over £400 in outstanding debt. The letter contains very little information, but having just phoned their Customer Services, I was told that the credit card registered for my account payment has been bouncing since November 2011- and now, over 18 months later, they have finally bothered to tell me about it. The details they provide for payment belong to a Debt Collection Agency.

I have monthly e-billing e-mails from them telling me that the account situation is all normal. They have NEVER prior to this letter told me that there was a problem, and yet suddenly they claim I owe them over £400.

Yes, I did not spot that payment was not being taken. I always check my credit card bills to ensure that the items on there are legit and I haven't been defrauded- but what I DON'T do is check whether any items that should be on my bill are mysteriously missing. How many people actually do this?

So now I'm pursuing advice about where I stand on this, and whether they have any right to claim this money despite their complete incompetence...? Although I am capable of paying the money, I am extremely unhappy with any unexpected demand for over £400 within 10 days, from anybody.

Any comments would be welcome, whether or not it's what I'm wanting to hear.

Thanks

'DonQuibeats'

unholyangel

Well you do owe the money as I presume you've still been receiving service.

I assume other payments were being debited from your credit card fine? Do they have the correct payment details?

You could always ask for more time to pay it back. But it may be more beneficial to pay one lump sum if you are able and ask them to remove the default from your file.

frugal_mike

DonQuibeats wrote: »

Hello

[Reposting this message that I originally put in the internet service provider forum, as it may be more relevant here.]

I have been stunned this morning by an unexpected letter from Vodafone / Demon Internet / Thus / whatever they're called nowadays and would welcome any opinions and whether I have a leg to stand on or not.

I have been a Demon (ISP) customer for 18 years and although there have been some periods of very poor service in that time, they've mostly been fine so I've stuck with them. (Not any more.)

Now I've received a legitimate-looking letter demanding over £400 in outstanding debt. The letter contains very little information, but having just phoned their Customer Services, I was told that the credit card registered for my account payment has been bouncing since November 2011- and now, over 18 months later, they have finally bothered to tell me about it. The details they provide for payment belong to a Debt Collection Agency.

I have monthly e-billing e-mails from them telling me that the account situation is all normal. They have NEVER prior to this letter told me that there was a problem, and yet suddenly they claim I owe them over £400.

Yes, I did not spot that payment was not being taken. I always check my credit card bills to ensure that the items on there are legit and I haven't been defrauded- but what I DON'T do is check whether any items that should be on my bill are mysteriously missing. How many people actually do this?

So now I'm pursuing advice about where I stand on this, and whether they have any right to claim this money despite their complete incompetence...? Although I am capable of paying the money, I am extremely unhappy with any unexpected demand for over £400 within 10 days, from anybody.

Any comments would be welcome, whether or not it's what I'm wanting to hear.

Thanks

'DonQuibeats'

If you actually owe the money, it hasn't yet been paid, and its less than 6 years since the debt was made, then they are within their rights to ask for it.

That being said, I too would be very annoyed if the first I heard from them was a debt collection agency 2 years later. If your online account does not indicate you are in arrears then that would definitely be something to complain about.

One thing to look into now will be your credit file as that will have been damaged by this. The debt boards here will have more info on this.

They will also be able to tell you the best way to get the money paid, but you'll definitely want to get any money you owe paid ASAP.

I would then be complaining to Demon, as it sounds like they have not handled this well at all.

ValHaller

unholyangel wrote: »

But it may be more beneficial to pay one lump sum if you are able and ask them to remove the default from your file.

OP has not said a default has been put on his file - if one is, a default notice should have been sent first and OP would have had an opportunity to put it right - at which point he would have been on here similarly incensed.

I suggest that OP should make arrangements to pay and if refused should take his business elsewhere and pay the bill off in affordable chunks.

arcon5

Negotiate a lump sum with them... you do owe the money, but may be able to work it to your advantage!

unholyangel

ValHaller wrote: »

OP has not said a default has been put on his file - if one is, a default notice should have been sent first and OP would have had an opportunity to put it right - at which point he would have been on here similarly incensed.

I suggest that OP should make arrangements to pay and if refused should take his business elsewhere and pay the bill off in affordable chunks.

Its only if the agreement is regulated by CCA that a default notice is required.

You can have defaults against your credit file for missing a scheduled payment.

ValHaller

unholyangel wrote: »

Its only if the agreement is regulated by CCA that a default notice is required.

You can have defaults against your credit file for missing a scheduled payment.

http://www.ico.org.uk/~/media/documents/library/data_protection/detailed_specialist_guides/default_tgn_version_v3%2520%2520doc.ashx&sa=U&ei=C4i8UayEIYua0QXmrIGQCw&ved=0CBsQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNFbCVyRVusCswwkP2sXG-HVk673kg

is relevant. It takes more than missing a payment to meet the definition

The term ‘default’, when recorded on a credit reference file should be used to refer to a situation when “the lender in a standard business relationship with the individual decides the relationship has broken down”

And I would still argue that it is very wrong to file a default until the customer has been notified of the problem.

DonQuibeats

Just to clarify, I'm not aware of any default record or any other implication on my account- but given the company's inability to do basic communication with me, just because I haven't been told about it doesn't mean it hasn't happened... I have never had any other payment defaults of any kind so to the best of my knowledge it will be a completely unjustified (and not-my-fault) blemish on an otherwise fine credit record.

I have been promised that somebody from Demon's 'credit department' will be phoning me on Monday, as they don't work weekends. I will wait (angrily) until then and see what they have to say for themselves, and if necessary I'll report back on this thread.

I am also due a call on Monday from Demon's 'customer loyalty department' so that they can try to persuade me to keep my custom with Demon. I just wanted to cancel outright, but was told this is how it worked and that apparently I can't cancel my account during a weekend. Suffice it to say that the person making that call is going to have to work EXTREMELY hard if they want to keep this particular customer- which, if they've decided I'm some sort of credit liability, they probably don't. A very sour end to 18 years of loyal custom.

fozmcfc

I can't actually believe that your broadband has not been cut off, on a couple of occasions where I have changed debit cards in the past. I have had companies on my back within a few days of non-payment.

You must IMO, hold some responsibilty as well though, I bet you would have noticed had your credit card been billed incorrectly and not in your favour.

My view you owe the money you need to pay it.

The rest will depend on why they haven't received the money.

If you are not at fault, then it will either be the card issuer or at their end

I personally would not go in all guns blazing, I would remain calm and explain the situation. I would make my case politely and say you accept the money is owing, but would like time to pay (if needs be) and to know why it wasn't taken for the past 18 months.

As they have not cut off your service, I would say something is wrong at their end and their system have only just picked up on the error.

I would still follow their complaints procedure and complain in writing that it has taken them 18 months to notify you and that had it been bought to your attention much sooner, you could have sorted out the issue.

If it is found to be an error at your card issuers end, then I guess you will need to complain to them about the situation it has left you in.

If you are at fault, then the best you can do is ask to pay it over installments if neccesary. You could also say it is unfair that it has taken them so long to notify you and therefore any bad markers on your credit files, should be altered, perhaps to 1 missed payment for Nov 11.

Even if you are at fault, I still think that some sort of compromise needs to be found.

agrinnall

If the money that they are asking for is just the money that you would have paid anyway but didn't, then you've received the service and in effect had an interest-free loan until now, so pay it and either carry on or move suppliers. If the amount includes any charges over and above the amount due for the service then I would dispute paying the extra on the basis that you had no advance warning that charges would be applied.

DonQuibeats

Thanks fozmcfc and agrinnall for very valid comments. I will bear them all in mind when discussing it with Demon on Monday.

Ultimately I expect I will have to pay the money but I'm going to make sure somebody gets to the bottom of how this problem happened in the first place before I pay anything. There is absolutely no way I will pay any fee or extra charge on top of the standard service rate I had agreed to. To be honest I don't agree with fozmcfc's statement that I'm partly to blame for the situation, but there you go.

Regardless of the outcome about the payment, I am leaving Demon because any half-decent company would have sent a notification to a customer if their credit card had been declined for 12 months in a row, and would at least have tried to contact the customer before contacting a Debt Agency.