What am I missing?

Dan-Dan

DaftyDuck wrote: »

What price to offer? Would they be insulted at £220k, are they desperate to sell? Only way to find out is to make an offer. However...

Hazyjo is right... an offer, particularly a low offer, is far more likely to be accepted and move forward to a successful purchase if your house is under offer at the least. If they accept your offer of (lets say) £226,500 after shilly-shallying around, and you haven't sold, someone else who can proceed will come in at £226,995 (or even £225,000) and get the house. If you are going in low, get your house in a sale first.
hj is also bang right about offering a non-rounded sum; it's far more likely to get accepted, and far less likely to be shunted up much higher. It's psychology - ask Derren Brown for the reasons why I even go for stranger sums.. £222,775, £223,175. It does actually work... "they" have dun research wot proves it... somewhere...

Your advice worked for me.....i went in as a final offer of £176,250 , and agreed on £177 , i firmly belive the offer we made helped get it for the 177 , rather than 180 as it made it seem it was our very limit

DaftyDuck

fishpond wrote: »

Continued from previous:-
Then offer a lower price once you have the ammunition in your hand.
ie your survey report.

Or get offer accepted at a lower price in the first place..
Then offer a lower price once you have the ammunition in your hand.
ie your survey report

fishpond

DaftyDuck wrote: »

Or get offer accepted at a lower price in the first place..
Then offer a lower price once you have the ammunition in your hand.
ie your survey report

Then standing a good chance of being told by the vendor to go back to Disney Land:rotfl:

I suppose it depends on whether you are interested in the property or playing games and wasting other peoples time and your own.

DaftyDuck

fishpond wrote: »

Then standing a good chance of being told by the vendor to go back to Disney Land:rotfl:

I suppose it depends on whether you are interested in the property or playing games and wasting other peoples time and your own.

I am interested in getting the property at a sensible price. When you have offered the asking price, and not bargained as you suggest, the vendor is all keyed up that he's getting the asking price. Your way, and he'll very likely tell you go take a hike for a later price drop - especially if the survey is clean and he knows it.

Shift them away from the asking price first, they've already shown a willingness to negotiate BEFORE you risk your expenditure. You now know the top bottom line you'll have to pay... nobody need walk, then, if the survey shows problems, you are much, much more likely to get the vendor to shift.

The first jump, down from an unrealistic asking price, is often the most difficult. If you've mutually agreed on, say 289,750, down from £299,000 and the survey shows there's £2,300 pounds of work, he'll shift. You get it for, say £288,000. Agree @ asking price, then survey will take that down to £297,700. If he'll shift, now he knows you can afford £299,000.

Anyway, you'll look a bit silly your way when a surveyor sends in a report saying "never seen such a clean and well built property; nothing to report, no complaints..." You are stuck at the asking price, possibly forced to withdraw rather than overpay, and you are down legal+survey+mortgage fees. Bummer

I'd rather pay £288,000 than £297,700 in that example.


This idea that floats around that we are all "playing games" is not taken the right way. It's game theory, as in John von Neumann and John Nash, not games as in "play". Best of all is when you can win, and they don't lose, and everybody leaves a happy bunny. Can and does often happen!

geoffky

fishpond wrote: »

Then standing a good chance of being told by the vendor to go back to Disney Land:rotfl:

I suppose it depends on whether you are interested in the property or playing games and wasting other peoples time and your own.

I feel sorry for you...Some of us have negotiating skills and use them some are brain dead..

fishpond

DaftyDuck wrote: »

I am interested in getting the property at a sensible price. When you have offered the asking price, and not bargained as you suggest, the vendor is all keyed up that he's getting the asking price. Your way, and he'll very likely tell you go take a hike for a later price drop - especially if the survey is clean and he knows it.

Shift them away from the asking price first, they've already shown a willingness to negotiate BEFORE you risk your expenditure. You now know the top bottom line you'll have to pay... nobody need walk, then, if the survey shows problems, you are much, much more likely to get the vendor to shift.

The first jump, down from an unrealistic asking price, is often the most difficult. If you've mutually agreed on, say 289,750, down from £299,000 and the survey shows there's £2,300 pounds of work, he'll shift. You get it for, say £288,000. Agree @ asking price, then survey will take that down to £297,700. If he'll shift, now he knows you can afford £299,000.

Anyway, you'll look a bit silly your way when a surveyor sends in a report saying "never seen such a clean and well built property; nothing to report, no complaints..." You are stuck at the asking price, possibly forced to withdraw rather than overpay, and you are down legal+survey+mortgage fees. Bummer

I'd rather pay £288,000 than £297,700 in that example.


This idea that floats around that we are all "playing games" is not taken the right way. It's game theory, as in John von Neumann and John Nash, not games as in "play". Best of all is when you can win, and they don't lose, and everybody leaves a happy bunny. Can and does often happen!

How would the vendor see your survey report or initially be aware of the content of it?
What expenditure risk?
The only outlay would be either a full survey or a Homebuyers report, which at less than 1k is small potatoes if you are serious about the property.
Mortgage fees are not payable until you have the money, unless you are talking about using a mortgage broker, even so. some of those are free as they take commission.
A lot of solicitors do not charge until the contracts are exchanged
How does anybody know this property is overpriced as 2 years ago it was a very different market
Yes, I forgot, you want something for nothing.

DaftyDuck

fishpond wrote: »

Why don't you offer them their asking price?
Because that's just a price the agent has settled on as an approximation of value.. Their original "guess" was £260,000, now reduced down to £240,000. So the agent was £20,000 out in the first place. Maybe they are still out by £10k. Oh, and the house still hasn't sold. Oh, and they might happily accept a lower offer ...

Then offer a lower price once you have the ammunition in your hand.
ie your survey report.

What if the survey comes back "clean"? :eek: Then you are stuck offering the asking price, or back to bargaining with the vendor from scratch... and why should he barter now since you "thought" his house was worth the full price. Oh, and now he knows you can afford the full price...
So you now either pay full price and get the house, or you now pull out, having wasted quite a bit of your money, and really wasted the sellers time. Great!

Anyway, even if the survey shows a few faults, it's not necessarily going to be worth much in the bartering process. Certainly not the kind of sums the OP is sensibly trying to get off the current price.

So, when I suggested the OP try to get an offer accepted at a lower price in the first place.. Then possibly offer a lower price once you have the ammunition in your hand. ie your survey report... you retort..

fishpond wrote: »

Then standing a good chance of being told by the vendor to go back to Disney Land:rotfl:
I suppose it depends on whether you are interested in the property or playing games and wasting other peoples time and your own.

:wall::wall::wall:So, why on earth do you think you can get money off because of a survey and not be told to pop off to Disney Land? I think I've shown how you've possibly just wasted a few weeks of the Vendor's valuable time........

fishpond wrote: »

How would the vendor see your survey report or initially be aware of the content of it?
He would ask for it when you told him you wanted money off because of the faults found in the survey, which is the way you suggested getting a price reduction after survey. No seller is going to simply believe "I want a reduction of £3,000 because there's damp". They'll ask for the evidence. They'll want to see part or all of the survey.

What expenditure risk? The only outlay would be either a full survey or a Homebuyers report, which at less than 1k is small potatoes if you are serious about the property.
So, ~1k is still expenditure. It all adds up, particularly if the vendor now pulls out and you go through this process again... and again...Then, you can add in costs of starting the soliciting process which, "if you are serious about the property", you'll do to keep things moving. You don't want to waste time and possibly be gazumped. A solicitor who offers a no-completion no-fee deal has simply added a premium on to his bill. There's nowt free in life. Searches are best done as early as possible; they may throw something up that you are really unkeen on.
Mortgage fees are not payable until you have the money, unless you are talking about using a mortgage broker, even so. some of those are free as they take commission. .... Oh, they are not "free"; you'll pay them, believe me, the commission will be substantial, not free... :rotfl::rotfl:
A lot of solicitors do not charge until the contracts are exchanged (... but they still charge, don't they... it's not "free")
How does anybody know this property is overpriced as 2 years ago it was a very different market

It's likely overpriced because it has been on the market for a year and not sold. The price has been dropped by approximately 10%, and it has not sold.
Yes, I forgot, you want something for nothing.
Well, I certainly won't say no to something for nothing but, in context, you are completely wrong. If I want to buy their house, of course I want it for the best price possible. I'm not giving my money away. However, I don't want to screw any vendor to the point they tell me to take a hike... but I want to get close to that point. I swap that financial squeeze for the simplest and efficient sale most of them have seen. From offer to completion is almost always under a month and the vendors generally love that!

Yep, I think offering the asking price as you suggested, then trying to reduce is a foolish tactic. It will upset the vendor, and not get you anything like the best price for a property. The OP, jetsetwilly, on the other hand, looks like he's tackling this right. Arming himself with information, he's aiming to get the house for the best price the vendor is happy to take... That's the way to do it