'Moderating' on the Bankruptcy board

MSE_Martin

Hi folks,

I understand its been a difficult weekend. I haven't seen the posts in question - but I gather they're upsetting. However I and my team have had a couple of rather unfair notes sent to us about this (as well as many helpful ones) on a bank holiday weekend . And I wanted to explain the position to everyone.

1. This Board. As you know I'm a supporter and very happy to have the board here, there's a post from me at the top of the board. I want those who are bankrupt to have access to the same MoneySaving as everyone else and am proud to have a Forum that allows people who are bankrupt to help each other. If I didn't I wouldn't be here at 10.30pm on bank holiday monday following the same at 1am this morning, trying to help sort it.

2. How 'moderating works'. It doesn't this site is not moderated, as it says at the site "POSTS ARE NOT MONITORED!". This is quite deliberate, we operate a 'report an abuse' policy, in other words when you see a problem please report it. This is because the law maintains that if we moderate then I am deemed to have published every post on here and am legally responsible for it.

3. Why don't you read every post? Well first of all because over 10 paperback books worth are written on the forum every day. So its impossible - the resources needed would be huge. But also it's not about policing discussion.

4. The abuse team. We respond as quickly as we can. We try and respond quickly during the week (and usually do, often very quickly) but can't guarantee to respond any quicker than two working days. There can be over 1000 abuse reports a day to thread through.

5. Why don't we have more board guides? This is a misunderstanding, board guides do not deal with abuse, in fact we very specifically ask them not to - instead to report it to the abuse team. This is because board guides are volunteers there to keep the forums running smoothly. The abuse team area paid team who are answerable directly to the site - they never post on the site in any other way or any other guise. My aim is to protect the site as a whole - with the nature of taking companies on that isn't as easy as you think and threats of legal action have popped up many times. It's for me to choose the fights.

Please understand we do our best, but its the nature of a Forum

So I'd ask you to please understand that we have limited resources, this is a free site, no one is asked to pay to use it. This weekend some members of this board have emailed abuse EVERY 10 MINUTES askign about posts. Some have done this at 4am! This first of all clogs up the system for everyone, and secondly it is a bank holiday weekend with skeleton coverage - it's an unreasonable expectation.

It's not my aim to be cruel. I set this site up to help everyone. Yet I have to remind you of what it says on the top of the page "It's an open forum! Anyone can post so always exercise caution when acting on info."

This is an open forum, people will sadly be rude and disagree. We will do our best to keep people within the rules, but there is no automatic policing. I understand that for some they are too fragile to deal with this. If that's the case then I'm afraid an open forum isn't appropriate - I do not have the resources or facilities to protect people in this way.

I have asked the abuse team to try and keep an eye on what's going on here. Yet we can block or ban people and they can find ways to come back. We do our best, but the nature of 'allowing anyone to ask for help' also means 'anyone can come on and post'.

Martin

Bakeybadoo

Your post matches exactly my thoughts on the whole issue and how I view the forum in general. Also about the idea of moderating any further than what we have already.

It's not ideal but it's as close as we can expect on a forum as big as this.

Thanks for wading in, Martin.

ClaireLR

People were talking earlier about having voluntary moderators (on another thread). Would this not be helpful??

But generally I do agree with what Martin has said.

Bakeybadoo

We have moderators (board guides as they are known here) already. It hasn't stopped the problem AND they have no 'real' power to do much about abusive threads and the reason why was explained in Martin's post - legal issues and such like.

ClaireLR

Could they not be given more powers?

Generally I agree with Martin as I said but what has happened this weekend has led to 2 people, as far as I know, no longer posting here. I think this is a teriible shame. I am at the start of my journey on the road to BR, and the advice and support I have been given here has been amazing. It's such a shame that the thread couldn't have been removed sooner as I don't believe the 2 people that have said they will no longer be posting would have reached that decision.

Can't anything be done about this please?

MSE_Martin

Hi Claire

I'm afraid they can't be given more powers. Nor would I want them to be. It would leave the site open to many more legal issues (please read the legal explanation in the first post). Your solution may seem right for this board here, yet for the myriad of other issues when running a forum, it doesn't help (many get upset that other posters - who are board guides - have more power - this causes us more complains than any other ). By having an anonymous professional abuse team we deal with these issues.

These things aren't as black and white as delete a post. People are allowed to disagree - where do you draw the line? I'm afraid it isn't as simple as "delete the horrid posts". What is horrid to one person, isn't to another. While you're considering obvious issues - nothing is that black and white. We do our best, but this has happened over a bank holiday weekend. That's the nature of the internet - limited regulation.

We do our best and will continue to do so. Yet I have to protect the site as a whole for the 3 million users from being shut down by a major legal challenge and I operate it that way. Actually problems like this are rare. I hate it when it happens, but they're rare.

Unfortuantely on an open forum, whichever forum it is, people have to be prepared that occassionally inconsiderate people will use the anony,mity of the web to be nasty. Little can be done to stop that.

Martin

southernscouser

blind-as-a-bat wrote: »

As has been said and aknowledged by yourself a small number of posters on this board are close to the edge will you please consider my request as i cannot agree with what you have said for that reason and we together can offer a safer place if need be

I can understand your frustrations bat, but what if Martin were to recommend your site and someone suffered the same abuse and no moderators were online to delete the posts? Martin and this site then get a bad reputation for promoting sites where posters suffer abuse on them!

It really is a lose lose situation.

There is only one option. Report the posts and ignore them! :undecided

MSE_Martin

Blind-as-a-bat.

This is a website. If people want to go elsewhere they are more than welcome. I don't know that forum. I don't know who runs it. I don't know if it provides 24-7 abuse coverage (i doubt it). I don't know anything about it. I know it doesn't provide the wealth of info that it is here. I don't believe it is a solution to the problem. So no I won't do a sticky link to it (you've already linked to it here and I'm sure else where and that's not blocked but it comes from you not me) and I would prefer that we don't take this discussion off track.

My above isn't to cast suspicion on the site, more to say that the idea that putting a sticky link to a.n.other site - no matter how good or bad isn't the solution.

I know many people in here feel that bankruptcy is a special case. Actually from my perspective, sadly it isn't.

We've had people who are vulnerable in DFW talking about terrible Debts, in Families talking about bereavement, in Benefits talking about Child Support, in health talking about mental health. People who are vulnerable due to weight problems, addiction problems and many others.

I don't aim to diminish the terrible impact of bankruptcy to the lives of some who go through it - or the tremendous stress it puts people under. Yet the problem of fragile and vulnerable people isn't unique to this board. And isn't unique to this forum. We have a long time worked out policy to protect the site and protect people. Again I say if people feel this forum can't protect or look after them due to their vulnerability, then I would ask they don't post here.

As for where else they should post. I doubt anywhere can provide the necessary protection - that's not how forums work (and please don't open debate here on it - as I say that's not what this is about)

Martin

Bakeybadoo

No, that's not right, BAAB, not right at all.

The onus, as Martin already said, is not on him or MSE to protect delicate people.

Richard_S

Hi Martin,

I accept and fully understand everything you have said but there has to be a better way to protect vulnerable people than the current safeguards. I appreciate that you're still on line over a bank holiday weekend but I too have spent many hours after work answering questions and supporting people via email and Private Messages who are too fragile to dare to post on line.

I have no intention of walking away from this site, I've learnt an awful lot and I've given an awful lot but to say that it's an open forum and that's the end of if doesn't really offer a reasonable solution; you can do better than that.

Richard

Bakeybadoo

I don't want to seem like a butt kisser but Martin is thinking exactly as I am (or is it vice-versa! )

It sounds harsh but it's true. What exactly do you expect him to do? That would be fair to all and benefit this board specifically?

The BR board is ONE board, it's not right for him to single it out for special or different treatment. And rightly so. As I already said on the other thread, THAT in itself would cause more problems again. Which is the last thing we need here.