Importation Vat on numismatic coins into the UK is not 20% !

societys_child

lincroft1710 wrote: »

I think he's being tongue in cheek!

Yes, I got that.;)

Don't believe anyone has actually waded thro' the whole 6 posts :eek:

SolidShot

Silver now £12.50 per oz.

So what is the truth is it really possible to get a refund of VAT? To me £12.50 for an ounce of silver is a very good deal. If I pay 20% or a little more I still do not mind.

But as of yet I can not find anywhere that you can buy real silver bullion for anywhere near the paper price.

Where is the cheapest right now to order 500 ounces into the UK?

I do not want paper promises ETFs or any other paper. All I want is real ounces of physical silver bullion for the long term. This is my retirement fund.

My silver is for my silver years

silvertrader

Hi solidshot,
Yep you will get no where near to the spot price, the mints are charging a high premium the bullion dealers are charging a high premium due to hedging i.e. they order the coins in advance and the spot paper price only reflects the manipulation in the stock markets.
even if you did buy the paper / efts you wont get physical delivery EVER
So its hard to say mate!
I'm still waiting for a response to my parliamentary complaint which i should get by the end of the month, I have received refunds but thats for smaller amounts! its maybe still a bit risky to be ordering monster boxs lol
If your going to buy now mate shop around if your not picky about which silver coins you buy you can get the cheaper one's
Guernsey:
Australian koala's are £17.18 each for 500 but add on the vat, if you do buy from them ring them up and ask for a better price over the phone you might get it! and if you feel lucky then you can put in a bor286 and claim the vat difference back.
bullionbypost maples are 17.21 each but add on the vat, but you cant try to claim it back
purabid is a decent company again give them a ring and ask for the best price you can get on one of the decent coins ( better known ones)
they can do a good deal but you cant try to claim the vat back
you could order from a German supplier whereby you pay for a courier to pick it up in Germany for you and deliver it, means you pay 7% vat.
or estonia which has high premiums but no vat ( i hear mixed things about this ) and to be honest the end cost saving is maybe not worth the wait or risk as far as I'm concerned ( long waiting times).
i have dealt with Guernsey and purabid personally and know they can be trusted so i stick with them.
shop around mate make you calculations but don't buy over the net ring them up and barter a bit
I got 41p off each coin on a small order from Guernsey this week just by ringing and asking. tell them your thinking of buying more monster boxes in the future etc etc and have some examples of the competitions prices at hand.
( !!!!!!!! a little )
you can ask about using the 9705000000 specification code but they are unlikely to do it just yet for anyone else but me until this whole thing is finished, complaint etc etc and they are secure that hmrc wont come after them in a year for doing it.
Sorry if this info is not as helpful as i would like to be, i hope that in 10 days I will have all the answers but god know what the silver price will be by then.
Martin aka Silvertrader

ps: Guernsey ask for Micheal
purabid ask for Yanis
and barter ...

SolidShot

Why such a huge difference between paper and real silver prices? If the price of silver £13 I want to buy 100's of ounces of real silver for the price of silver which is today under £13 oz.

silvertrader

Its called market manipulation mate
they are doing it so much that it no longer relates to the physical price of mining it, making the coins, and meeting demand!
its getting really bad lol
in japan and Taiwan they are paying up to 70% over spot just to get their hands on the physical.
How long will this continue is anyone's guess
Sorry mate you just wont get silver coins at the spot price anywhere

SolidShot

If the market is so messed up with 70% over spot, how can you know what is the price of real silver. I am not interested in the paper price I want to know the cheapest place to get the real bullion as a long term investment.

silvertrader

sent you a message mate

silvertrader

Hallo guys,
This is just a quick update as i have received a reply from the ukba!
Naturally things are still progressing and might take another week or 2 but i thought i would post their response
In regards to whats said in this reply from them i can not express my surprise at some of the explanations made by this person !!
Its as if she thinks i do not have scans and copy's of the customs declarations on hand to rip the excuses apart!
However its pretty clear that the 5% vat is not questioned in any way, it's just that they are trying to make excuses for why i was charged 20% in the first place. none of which hold up !
Also if you scroll up to my parliamentary complaint your notice that they have made absolutely no attempt to answer the important questions or mention how they are going to stop this from happening anymore!!
happy reading guys

http://forums.ebid.net/showthread.php?167858-Silvertraders-topics-%28-Importation-Vat-on-numismatic-coins-into-the-UK-is-not-20-!-%29

silvertrader

Border Force Complaints Team
Priory Court
St John’s Road
Dover
Kent CT17 9SH

Email [EMAIL="borderforcecomplaints@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk"]borderforcecomplaints@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk[/EMAIL]
Web www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk

Mr M >>>>>>>>>

Email: >>>>>>>>>>>>@hotmail.co.uk




Date 24 June 2013 Accredited to the Customer Service Excellence
standard
Our Ref 40969 and TO188784
Your Ref: AR5>>>>>GB, AD3976>>>>GB and AR5>>>>>14GB

Dear Mr >>>>>>>>

Thank you for your correspondence sent to the Border Force Complaints Team and to the Immigration Minister. This has been passed to me as the officer responsible for handling your complaint. Before I respond to your specific concerns regarding the above parcels, I would like to assure you all complaints about our staff and the level of service provided by Border Force are treated seriously. Furthermore, such complaints are used as an opportunity to learn and improve services.

If you believe your complaint has not been dealt with in the right way you may write to us at the address above and a complaints manager will check the process used to look into your complaint, to ensure it was both appropriate and followed correctly. You must do this within one month of the date of this letter.

In line with our usual procedures, which are set out in detail at http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/ab...kingacomplaint, I have asked the operational manager at the Coventry International Hub (CIH) to assess the circumstances relating to the matter you have complained about. With this work now complete, I have based my response on their findings. I hope my reply helps you to understand the reasons why.

Parcel reference, AR535>>>>GB was correctly charged on 20% VAT at the time of import. I am therefore not upholding this particular aspect of your complaint. You advised Border Force the exporter had entered the wrong commodity code on the declaration. You provided further information received by CIH on 22 March 2013 substantiating this and enabled them to process a part refund for the sum of £67.50. The payment was processed on the 17 May 2013 and you should receive a payable order within 30 working days.

I am advised Parcel reference, AD39>>>>>GB was incorrectly charged on 20% VAT at the time of import despite a commodity code on the declaration to levy 5% VAT. I am upholding this element of your complaint and I am sorry for any inconvenience caused by this error. The further information received from you on 22 March 2013 meant CIH could process a part refund for the sum of £144.75. This was also processed on 17 May 2013 and a payable order should be received by you within 30 working days.

It has been determined that parcel reference, AR5>>>>>GB was charged levying 20% VAT. Unfortunately the operational manager at CIH has been unable to view the declaration for this parcel. However, a Border Force officer at CIH at the time of import did make a note advising the contents of the parcel was declared as ‘sample coins’. I should explain sample coins would not attract 5% VAT so CIH acted correctly by applying 20% VAT charge on this parcel. I cannot for this reason uphold this element of your complaint.

CIH has determined from the correspondence forwarded to and received by the Border Force Complaint Team that you are entitled to a part refund for the sum of £81.35 for parcel reference, AR35169014GB. They processed this on 30 May 2013 and you should receive the payable order within 30 days.

I understand the part refund for parcel reference AR53>>>>>>>GB was not processed within agreed timescales. I am therefore upholding this element of your complaint. I should explain CIH aims to provide a full response to its customers within 20 working days. However, they are currently experiencing a high level of correspondence. Senior managers are aware customers are not always receiving the level of service they should expect. I am sorry for any inconvenience and upset caused by the delay.

At present CIH is unable to receive email correspondence. However, the National Advice Service (NAS) handles telephone queries on postal imports and will contact CIH on behalf of the customer for clarification if required. Should you wish to contact NAS you may do so by telephoning 0845 010 9000.

I hope my reply has clarified the position. The Border Force complaints team are keen to continually review and improve our services. To help us do so, we would be grateful if you could complete a short online survey. Please access the survey using the following link: http://feedback.ukba.homeoffice.gov....p?i=35927hosbt

Yours sincerely
Mrs P >>>>>>>
Complaints Officer

silvertrader

Hi guys I have sent this response back + this complaint has now gone to the parliamentary ombudsman
Wish me luck

---

martin >>>>>>>
Attachment
02/07/2013
Documents, Photos
To: [EMAIL="mark.harper.mp@parliament.uk"]mark.harper.mp@parliament.uk[/EMAIL]
Cc: [EMAIL="enquiries@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk"]enquiries@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk[/EMAIL], [EMAIL="freedom.informationteam@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk"]freedom.informationteam@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk[/EMAIL]
Picture of martin >>>>>>

From: martin >>>>>>> (>>>>>>>>>>>@hotmail.co.uk)
Sent: 02 July 2013 14:54:29
To: [EMAIL="mark.harper.mp@parliament.uk"]mark.harper.mp@parliament.uk[/EMAIL] (mark.harper.mp@parliament.uk)
Cc: [EMAIL="enquiries@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk"]enquiries@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk[/EMAIL] (enquiries@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk); [EMAIL="freedom.informationteam@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk"]freedom.informationteam@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk[/EMAIL] (freedom.informationteam@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk)
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4 attachments (total 2.3 MB)
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Download 2nd parcel 2.jpg (767.1 KB)
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Download all as zip

Martin >>>>>>>



Dear Mark Harper,

Sir Charles Montgomery

Parliamentary ombudsman



Dear Gentlemen,

I recently sent you a parliamentary complaint on the 5th of June see attachment (parliamentary complaint) and have just received a reply from Mrs. P >>>> from the UKBA please see attachment (complaint reference 40>>>)

Apparently this was passed on to her from a minister, rather than treat it as a parliamentary complaint as I requested!

The reason I asked for this to be treated as a parliamentary complaint was because the ukba was refusing to respond to any requests of clarification in regards to them following the rule of law and charging the correct rate of vat on numismatic collector’s items, but also because the Ukba was not responding to complaints in line with their own guidelines.

This response from the ukba in no way answers any of the important questions that I have raised firstly in my original complaint letter or now in my parliamentary complaint.

In regards to the ukba’s response which I have just received, it seems they are only addressing the issue of the 3 parcels that I have received and completely ignoring the more important issues that I have raised regarding their fraudulent behavior, lack of accountability, failure to comply with the rule of law, knock on effects to other services and general unwillingness to correct the problems that they themselves are deliberately causing.

With this in mind I hardly feel this response from ukba warrants any serious reply however I will reply if for no other reason than for my own personal amusement below.

The first parcel is not in question!

The second parcel in which Mrs. >>>> upholds my complaint is in actual fact the parcel where samples were included and not the third parcel as she mentions! See attachment (2nd parcel)

If you’re looking at the attached scan your see that it clearly has the correct code of 9705000000 and x 25 items at a cost of £546. Underneath this is then the reference to sample coins x 3 = N/A

The third parcel DID NOT HAVE SAMPLE COINS ON THE CUSTOMS DECLARATION! It only had the classification code of 9705000000, so this statement by the relevant officer mentioned was false! As I mentioned in my complaint the customs declaration on the third parcel was not on the package when it arrived but the supplier did inform me that they had put this code and only this code on the package just like they have done with this my 4th package please see attachment (new parcel)

This package arrived this week, and was naturally overcharged at the 20% vat rate yet again!

So obviously nothing has changed at the ukba Langley depot! Nor is it likely to change if they are not held to account and forced to desist from their deliberate fraudulent activity!

Moving on let me be perfectly clear

I have no interest in going through the ukba complaints process, they have made it perfectly clear that they are unwilling to respond to the various questions I have raised over their conduct!

They have however dealt with all my refunds, even in regards to this new parcel to which I have already received a letter of refund confirmation in the amazing time frame of less than 5 days since posting my bor286 refund request to them

(Thanks for this to Karen >>>> the correspondence manager in Coventry).

I say Amazing because of the massive backlog in refund requests that the ukba themselves have caused due to overcharging the British public, I suspect they are now up to the beginning of march in regards to this backlog and I thank them for not putting me through another 3 months of aggravation in contrast to the possible 3 to 6 months that any other citizen in this country is having to wait to get a response from them.



Let me sum it up again:

1, they obviously know that they should only be charging 5% vat and judging from this response letter so do the employee’s on the frontline at the Langley depot.

Which begs the question why are they still charging 20% vat on parcels with the correct specification code?

IT is obvious to me that this deliberate overcharging and avoidance or addressing the issues is taking place so as to defraud the general public out of money!

Surely just following the law and charging the correct vat rate instead of overcharging and creating a massive backlog of complaints due to their own fraudulent behavior cannot be that hard to correct!

2, the truth of the matter is this; at any point over the last 4 months the ukba could and should have corrected this problem, not only for the benefit of the British population who keep getting overcharged but also for themselves to nip the backlog and knock on effects in the bud!

Sadly all they seem to be doing is at best ignoring the problem and doing everything in their power to undermine any discussion as to how to follow the rule of law and do their job.

As far as I am concerned when it gets to the point that the only defense they have is statements like “due to the massive backlog and internal problems that we have created we apologize for any inconvenience caused” then it’s beyond a joke and seems pretty clear that the only logical explanation for why this is continuing is because it’s part of a deliberate policy of committing fraud!

Yes they have refunded me my money and yes I am sure that I will get my refunds on any imports in the future again but I am not willing to sit back and allow them to commit fraud on the general population who are unable to find out this information or spend as much time as I have forcing them to do what they should be doing in the first place!



I want answers!

I want to read that the ukba in Langley will respect the rule of law and charge vat on numismatic imports at the correct rate at the point of import without forcing people to jump through hoops, without them having to send in refund requests for money that they should never have had to pay in the first place!

I want to read that any problems that might be stopping this from happening will now be fixed or that employee’s who obviously know this is an issue, will from now charge the correct rate straight away rather than overcharge deliberately in the hope that most people will not bother in requesting a refund and though pretend ignorance financially benefit the ukba from this obvious fraud.

So with all due respect could you now please pass my complaint onto the parliamentary ombudsman, if this is not possible please let me know why?

In the mean time I will be passing all this information on to Nick Brown mp and also a reporter who I have spoken to from the guardian.

Sincerely

Martin >>>>>>