Postal Notification of Parking Charge (but parking was paid for) - advice please

peewack1

Private Car Park co has sent a PCN (not a fine) for £50 for failing to make payment upon exit from barrier controlled car park. This is incorrect as £4.50 fee was paid at the on-foot machine. Problem began when getting in car to approach exit, the driver couldn't find ticket needed to exit anywhere. They returned to pay machine but no sign of it. They pressed buttons to request assistance on pay machine but no response. They went to the office but no attendants on site - all locked up. Tried contacting through pay machines again but still nothing. Their mobile phone was dead. Stuck, and needing to leave (and having paid) felt only option was to tail gate another car as it left. Felt CCTV would have captured payment, ticket search and attempts to make contact not just the tail gating. Cash not card was used to pay, so no receipt, but a voucher provided by employer that reduces fee was used. Weak I know and unlikely the car park co would do any internal investigation of pay machines or review CCTV other than at the exit having read a number of threads today.

Anyone been through a similar scenario who could share their outcome or anyone with sound guidance on how serious the request for £50 needs to be taken? After all parking was paid for.

atilla

Which company is it?

Coupon-mad

If this was an AOS member PPC in England/Wales then challenge it, then win it at POPLA.

As discussed here:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=79793

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=78988&st=20&start=20

...and as discussed on every PPC thread on this MSE forum too, so read a few other threads on the first page or two of this forum so you are looking at up-to-date replies (do not read long old threads just new ones). You need to know how to word a challenge and what not to miss out at POPLA stage.

In your case I would actually add a sentence or two to the usual generic weak challenge we normally suggest to send to the PPC. I would actually say (written in the third person of course, no mention of who was driving):

'The driver did buy a P&D ticket paying cash, but subsequently could not locate it when leaving. The driver sought help but and there was no response at all when the 'call assistance' button was pressed. The driver got out of the car and tried the office on site but it was empty and locked up, and the mobile phone number shown was dead. So there was no help provided for this situation and the driver was left with no option but to leave while a barrier was up.

As the registered keeper of this car I am keen to resolve this matter and as you can now see that there has been no payment nor parking breach and no loss suffered after all, I am hoping to assist you to trace the payment. Importantly for your purposes in identifying the ticket, a voucher was used which was issued by an employer and reduced the fee paid to £x.xx. This voucher was used at around xpm that day and I hope this assists you in tracing the payment & voucher to a matching ticket.

After all, the P&D ticket would be the only one, surely, reduced by the amount of that voucher, purchased around that time (I assume your tickets are serial-numbered and/or time-stamped) and which was not then returned to your machines at the end of the day. Also if it helps to corroborate my information, you no doubt have CCTv records beside the offices and would have captured on film the driver (male) at xpm as the only person walking up to the kiosk in a search for assistance.'

The reason I would suggest going into this unusual detail is to give the PPC a chance to locate the payment from the voucher and your timing details. And if they can't be arsed then you will have another appeal point for POPLA stage. Makes your challenge very reasonable and their lack of response (probably) an appeal point.

There is a section on P&D machines in the BPA Code of Practice which mentions manual checks I think? Check it out - I could be wrong but if it's not useful then you could cite the BPA's words from this email from a BPA Manager, mentioned in post #10 by Guy's Dad here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4554655

''Clearly “putting the customer at the heart of your thinking” would suggest that any parking systems and equipment deployed to control entry, exit and payment for parking should be in operation and motorists provided with the means to comply with any requirements for payment. To undertake enforcement action of any kind when this was not the case would be unfair. It is the adjudication services, both statutory and POPLA that would deal with this unfairness should it arise. Guidance of this kind is not something the BPA currently publishes since it is common sense to some extent and the appeals mechanism is in place.

It is also worth remembering that in most cases, when an enforcement agent enters say a pay and display car park, the first thing they do is to check the equipment before undertaking enforcement action.''

peewack1

Thank you for helping. It was NCP. The type where you get a ticket automatically from barrier machine as you pass through barrier at entrance. It's not a Pay&Display. You then use the ticket in pay machine on foot when you return. It calculates fee and you pay before it gives you ticket back to use at barrier machine to exit.

Firstly, I take it just ignoring the Notice is not an advisable option. But you do think that I should challenge it with the car park and I should do that in writing stating:

'This PCN is being challenged as the driver did pay for their parking at the machine, paying £4.50 cash. Following payment at approximately (time/date) they could not locate the ticket, minutes later, when trying to exit the car park. The driver sought help immediately, but there was no response at all when the 'call assistance' button was pressed on different pay machines on site. The driver also tried to gain help from the on site office but it was locked up and no staff was around anywhere to offer advice. The telephone facility was not available either. So there was no help provided for this situation and the driver was left with no option but to leave while a barrier was up.

As the registered keeper of this car I am keen to resolve this matter and as you can now see that there has been no payment nor parking breach and no loss suffered after all, I am hoping to assist you to trace the payment. Importantly for your purposes in identifying the payment, a voucher was used which was issued by a local employer (shall I name the employer in challenge) and that reduced the fee paid to £4.50. This voucher was used at around (time/date) that day and I hope this assists you in tracing the payment & voucher.

Due to the time of day given for the ticket being paid for (ie not the end of the day), it would be unlikely that another ticket would have been paid for using a voucher from that employer to reduce the fee to amount stated. Also if it helps to corroborate my information, you no doubt have CCTv records that would have captured on film the driver (male at xpm) processing payment at the machine at the (location in car park) and subsequently seeking assistance.'
ENDS

Is this ok? Please suggest any amends that would assist with the challenge and also how you end it if possible. I suspect that this will be declined by the car park company. Is the plan to then appeal through POPLA? If so, on what grounds would I do that under and what will the experience be like? Will letters get heavy and frequent from car park co?

peewack1

Hi, I'm drafting the appeal letter this evening.

Would really appreciate if some one could look at my suggested transcript in post above to ensure the I am including everything that puts me in as strong a position as possible going forward.

What does anyone think will happen next?

Umkomaas

peewack1 wrote: »

Hi, I'm drafting the appeal letter this evening.

Would really appreciate if some one could look at my suggested transcript in post above to ensure the I am including everything that puts me in as strong a position as possible going forward.

What does anyone think will happen next?

You seem to have provided the PPC with the details as they happened. I don't think anything else you can add at this stage will make much difference (i.e., no killer punch you can deliver). You seem to have put your case as reasonably as you can. But be aware, and be prepared, that mitigating pleadings rarely work with PPCs and rejection is almost inevitable. So POPLA will be your next step.

You need to make sure the PPC is aware that you are wised up to the system and processes by adding at the end of your letter:

'In view of the information I have provided above, I anticipate you cancelling this incorrect and unenforceable charge. Should you not do so, forward to me, within 35 days of the date of this letter a POPLA verification code, to whom I will put forward a thoroughly detailed and robust challenge to this fake PCN'.

Keep the forum posted of progress, and should you receive a POPLA code come back for more help, but meantime you might want to look at some of the links I made in a thread earlier today in preparation for any POPLA appeal.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=61808935&postcount=2

HTH

peewack1

Thank you. I suspect there will be further rounds to this. Will keep posted of outcome.