Plumbing help

rainbow12

I would appreciate a bit of advice / reassurance. I am having a full reovation on a property. The place has been stripped and Im having new bathroom and all central heating pipes sunk into the wall. The builder / plumber (who is also gas safe registered) has obviously had to disconnect everything from the boiler. He has run the pipework down the walls, taped and bonded the walls. He is due to run all the bathroom pipework in the next day or so and then plaster throughout.

The mains is currently disconnected because it has to be moved, this is in the kitchen which will be the last room to be done.

My concern is that all this plumbing is being done and sealed behind plaster and tiling without first checking for leaks. My builder says he is confident in his work and it is in his interest to do a proper job so he doesnt have to redo things / rip things out and start again but it worries me that there may be leaks which will require lots of remedial work. All pipework is copper welded, no plastic, no pushfit.

What do you guys think? Should I be worried? Should I insist that everything is connected and tested before plastering? (I am having all the rads replaced so there arent any in the place at present so it would cause a lot of extra sork, disruption and delay, as well as possible bad feeling which I can live with if needed). Also, my builder doesnt seem dodgy, he has dozens of really good reviews where I found him.

Thanks

bambibashercol

He should be testing everything. He needs to hydrostatically test the water pipes and he needs to test the gas pipework also.
He needs to wrap the copper pipework also if it is coming into contact with plaster. If he screws it up though he has to put it right.

warmhands.coldheart

He could pressurise the pipework with water prior to plastering easily enough. Might want to charge you a bit extra though. At the end of the day though, if he does the work and a problem arises, he has to fix it. Keep a small bit of money back from the final payment to allow for this. Talk to him, agree a figure and agree a timeframe after which the money will be released. Should allow for any immediate issues.

Mr_Ted

:(Anyone who is that over confident is likely to have a problem, the unforseen CAN and OFTEN will occur no matter what the quality of his work is like, materials can have unseen faults, ask anyone who experience the copper shortage in the 70's and the metres of pinholed pipework that had to be replaced due to inferior supplies:eek:
It is possible to test ALL pipework prior to connection and if the guy is really any good he should do that as a matter of course, ESPECIALLY GAS so ask to see his Gas Safe registration card and check his registration with Gas Safe on their website;)

There should be no need for ANY extra charge to do what is a matter of GOOD WORKMANSHIP STANDARDS, that is part and parcel of tradesmans scale of charges, unless he is a cowboy bodger looking to charge for extra's at any opportunity:eek:

southcoastrgi

heating pipes buried in the walls & then plastered over :doh:

what do you think happens to copper when it heats & cools & what do you think will happen to the bonding/plaster around them ?

hot & cold water pipes can be chased into the wall behind tiles but they are not allowed to be "plastered in" as they have to be accessible.

but of course your professional builder/plumber/gas safe reg installer (please delete depending whichever he is calling himself at the given time), would know all of the above, wouldn't he ?

rainbow12

Thanks for the answers - it isnt what I want to hear but is what I suspected!

So, where the heating pipes have gone the walls are already bonded. Assuming (yes I know '!!!' 'u' 'me') the pipes were denzo taped beforehand and there is a tiny leak, how long would it take for me to see it? I take it the bonding wont be airtight so I should see water / feel wetness coming out where the pipes come out horizontally to go in rads shouldnt I? The welds are in the loft and right at the bottom where the pipe comes out of the wall. As for the denzo I hadnt specifically said I wanted to see it in situ before the walls were bonded (probably should have but live and learn, hopefully this wont be a horrendously expensive lesson).

This is all very stressful (hence posting at silly o clock in the morning when I can usually sleep for England).

southcoastrgi

just to get some perpective into your situation, if you have no joints in the wall it is very unlikely the pipe will leak (although it has been known for the pipe to have been damaged prior to installation).

While denso tape will protect the pipe from the plaster it is not completely waterproof so a leak will show itself eventually, it is also the most messiest thing ever to use so if the pipe does have a pin hole in it then it really isn't easy to repair with denso all over it & tbh if you can't see the leak spurting out i doubt you will ever find it & end up ripping out the whole pipe.

the heating/hot/cold/ pipework doesn't have to be tested however it is good practice & highly recommended that it is, however the gas pipework (if he has done the same thing) MUST be tested before it is wrapped in denso tape.

heating pipes do expand & contract with heat, plaster does not, so you may end up with the plaster cracking, which is why i would never do what he has, yes it looks nice when it is first finished because you don't see any pipework, but it can cause problems.

any potable water pipes ie hot & cold must be accessable, ie not plastered in a solid wall, they can go into a stud wall & then that wall can be skimmed, they can be chased into a solid wall then tiled over, both of these options are classed as accessable (stupid as it may seem), however a gas pipe cannot be just installed in a stud wall without it being encased in a sealed boxing or if you had a leak the gas would build up in the wall.

if you have solid walls & floors then i always drop two pipes in the corner & box them in with plasterboard, this is then skimmed & it then looks like part of the house, yes you see the pipes coming out of the corner to feed the rad but if the rad position is thought out then this visable pipework is min.

as i guess the option to change things is long gone (although the gas pipes are a different story because if he has already installed these as the heating pipes then the denso must be removed & the pipework tested), the best thing you can do is get the pipework pressure tested prior to plastering & do a drawing of where the pipes are in the wall so you have it incase you want to hang a picture etc

rainbow12

Thanks southcoast.

I clarified things today. The gas pipes havent been sunk into the wall. A gas fire was disconnected and capped ready for a new fire to be fitted.
The bathroom pipework will be tested before tiling (and wont be bonded, just tiled over. The kitchen plumbing hasnt started yet but the boiler and it's pipes which wont be moving will fit into one larder cupboard.

The good thing is the rad pipes are chased down in the middle of where the rads will g so I wont have to play hunt-the-pipe or fix-the-pinhole-you-just-made-hanging-a-picture.

And in fairness Im the one that requested they all go in the wall and the builder has reassured me.

Thanks for giving me advice and info about what I needed to know / query.

Im sure I'll be back with loads more queries / anxieties before it's all finished

southcoastrgi

rainbow12 wrote: »

The good thing is the rad pipes are chased down in the middle of where the rads will g so I wont have to play hunt-the-pipe or fix-the-pinhole-you-just-made-hanging-a-picture.

if you sell make sure the new owners know about the pipes, because in the middle of a rad is exactly where someone will hang a pic.

And in fairness Im the one that requested they all go in the wall and the builder has reassured me.

with all due respect, you are paying a professional for his advice, & tbh if i was doing the job they wouldn't be going in the wall whether you wanted them there or not.

Im sure I'll be back with loads more queries / anxieties before it's all finished

yes please do if you need to, there are some good people on here that will give you un-biased advice.

..........

cyclonebri1

Mr_Ted wrote: »

:(Anyone who is that over confident is likely to have a problem, the unforseen CAN and OFTEN will occur no matter what the quality of his work is like, materials can have unseen faults, ask anyone who experience the copper shortage in the 70's and the metres of pinholed pipework that had to be replaced due to inferior supplies:eek:

And he would be the only pipe man I know that hadn't completely forgotten to actually solder a complete joint.

You want to see what happens when a 4" welded abs airline joint is missed,:eek::eek: with 4 floors of vertical riser weight above, it gets to quite a pressure before it blows, cost my mate new underwear.;)