4 weekly pay - how is it calculated?

jem16

Not entirely sure on the best place for this but as a lot of people used to working with payroll gather here, I thought this might be best.

In April 2011 our local council changed its teachers from month
Y pay to 4 weekly pay despite protestations from teachers and unions. They wanted all council employees to be paid at the same time.

We have recently become aware that our pay over the tax year has been short of our annual pay, in my case by £131.03. Checking the payslips it appeared that my annual pay was not divided by 13 to give my gross pay.

I have since had an email from the head of finance who has explained that we are not paid by 13 instalments but by a rolling 4 week period. To work out our gross pay they have taken 365 and divided that by 7 to give 52.14. They have then multiplied by 5 (working days apparently) to give 261 as the number of days worked in the year. So our gross pay on each payslip is our annual salary divided by 261 and then multiplied by 20 as there are 20 working days in a 4 week period.

Taking the last tax year as an example, I was short of my annual pay by £131.03 which is exactly one day's pay according to their way of working.

Is this a normal way of working out 4 weekly pay and how does it eventually give me the correct salary? To my mind I have received 2 days worth of pay less than if I was paid monthly.

jimmo

I don't really know the answer but it sounds right to me.
One year, who knows when, you will have 14 paydays and that year you will be overpaid by reference to your annual salary.

John_Pierpoint

It would appear that you are not being paid an annual payment but a "working day rate" which may fit in with manual staff who are paid by the day? School caretakers perhaps ?
One of the missing days last year had a local authority accounted on a 1st January to 31st December could have been a leap year.
So should you make a note in your diary to check 2015/16 to see if this method pays you for working the leap day.;)

chrismac1

Whilst mathemtatically what they are doing may be correct, in my view there is a very strong chance it is actually a breach of contract.

If your contract specifies "X per annum" and they have paid you X minus 131.03 per annum then they have short paid you.

What they SHOULD have done, in my view, is what I have done every time - at least 10 times - in my career when I've been making these calls, the largest one involving 400 people. Let's face it, this change is saving your employers a load more than £131 per person per year unless they are total numpties which I certainly do not rule out of the equation.

Step 1 - look at the contracts of all people concerned.
Step 2 - consider whether they need to be varied.
Step 3 - look at the personal impacts on people, this is most drastic when going from weekly to monthly pay.
Step 4 - call a meeting with the unions.
Step 5 - explain your analysis and your temporary workarounds which will inlcude a ONE-TIME payment on DAY 1 of the new arrangements for compensation to those people adversely affected by the new terms, as this is a contract variation to them.

I suspect that in your case some or all of these steps have been missed out.

StuC75

The council staff will have years that comprise of 364 days (13*4*7), and not 365.. So you havent been paid a day less its just that is how they re-jigged what your pay year is perceived to be, in terms of how many times you are paid within the year.

As such your pay year is always moving (much like your pay day will move through the month and across years) - e.g. You May pay day will slightly change from year to year.. hence the 'rolling aspect' of how you are paid..

Tax Years do not always cover full weeks - e.g. last year ran Friday to Friday and so the 1st day may been in a previous week year - so often there are adjustments made for how the pay periods fit in with the tax year - sometimes the date may be reset so that the 13*4 doesnt get too far out of synch with the tax year..

John_Pierpoint

I used to have this problem when trying to fill in my mother's tax return, so she could claim the 10% tax band.
Some slightly bored, slightly annoyed tax advice bod said "just multiply the weekly pension by 52", so that is what i did, every year.

jem16

jimmo wrote: »

I don't really know the answer but it sounds right to me.
One year, who knows when, you will have 14 paydays and that year you will be overpaid by reference to your annual salary.

Unfortunately as I retire in 2/3 years, that time may never arrive!

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

It would appear that you are not being paid an annual payment but a "working day rate" which may fit in with manual staff who are paid by the day? School caretakers perhaps ?

No - we are teachers who have been forced off monthly pay onto this rolling 4 weekly pay. All to suit the council who want to pay all of their employees at the same time. No doubt saves them money!

One of the missing days last year had a local authority accounted on a 1st January to 31st December could have been a leap year.
So should you make a note in your diary to check 2015/16 to see if this method pays you for working the leap day.;)

Our salary year was always 1st April to 31st March - same as the council financial year. 1st April 2011 to 31st March 2012 contained a leap year yet my P60 shows that I was £131.03 less - basically one day's pay.

jem16

chrismac1 wrote: »

Whilst mathemtatically what they are doing may be correct, in my view there is a very strong chance it is actually a breach of contract.

If your contract specifies "X per annum" and they have paid you X minus 131.03 per annum then they have short paid you.

As far as I'm concerned they have short paid us. As far as the council is concerned I should include 0.14 of a pay to give me a full calendar year and therefore they have not short paid me.

Step 1 - look at the contracts of all people concerned.
Step 2 - consider whether they need to be varied.
Step 3 - look at the personal impacts on people, this is most drastic when going from weekly to monthly pay.

No doubt they did this but they were determined to push it through regardless.

Teachers were given the chance to say what we would prefer, monthly of 4 weekly. They took no notice of our answers.

Step 4 - call a meeting with the unions.

Union meeting was called. The council attended the meeting, put down the changes and walked out of the meeting. Rolling 4 weekly pay was then imposed.

The main teaching union is aware of this and it's due to be brought up next week. I doubt anything will come of it to be honest as the council have just imposed it.

StuC75 wrote: »

The council staff will have years that comprise of 364 days (13*4*7), and not 365.. So you havent been paid a day less its just that is how they re-jigged what your pay year is perceived to be, in terms of how many times you are paid within the year.

When working out the daily rate, they have worked it out on (365/7) * 5 which according to them is 261. I actually make it 260.7 so my daily rate is actually short of something like 15p. Doesn't sound like a lot but soon adds up over the course of the year. Works out about £39.11pa.

As such your pay year is always moving (much like your pay day will move through the month and across years) - e.g. You May pay day will slightly change from year to year.. hence the 'rolling aspect' of how you are paid..

Tax Years do not always cover full weeks - e.g. last year ran Friday to Friday and so the 1st day may been in a previous week year - so often there are adjustments made for how the pay periods fit in with the tax year - sometimes the date may be reset so that the 13*4 doesnt get too far out of synch with the tax year..

Knowing our council this adjustment will never be made and almost certainly not before I retire.

For 35 years I have been paid monthly as most professionals would be. My P60 figures always agreed with my annual salary. Now it's all over the place and I can't actually work out whether or not I'm being paid correctly.

This is what I object to. That and the fact that it's been imposed on us!

John_Pierpoint

As others have posted, what days of the year were your "pay days".

I realise that your colleagues are all teachers but what about someone like the school caretaker, are you now on the same cycle of payments as he was/is?

The calendar indexes forwards a day per year for three years and then 2 days in a leap year, so as your month lasts 28 days it could indeed be a long time before you get 14 lunar pay days within a calendar year.

Unless you want to be a barrack room lawyer hero, I would try to handle this situation through the union and/or look into claiming the missing pay as part of your final retirement cheque.

jem16

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

As others have posted, what days of the year were your "pay days".

First one was Friday 29th April 2011 and every 4 weeks thereafter.

I realise that your colleagues are all teachers but what about someone like the school caretaker, are you now on the same cycle of payments as he was/is?

I would imagine so. This was what the council had planned as it was better for them to have their pay run on the same day for all employees. Everybody was changed from weekly, fortnightly and monthly to 4 weekly.

The calendar indexes forwards a day per year for three years and then 2 days in a leap year, so as your month lasts 28 days it could indeed be a long time before you get 14 lunar pay days within a calendar year.

Could well be. I shall sit down with a calendar and see.

Unless you want to be a barrack room lawyer hero, I would try to handle this situation through the union and/or look into claiming the missing pay as part of your final retirement cheque.

I will be leaving it to the union to deal with. They've got more clout that I have but even that I fear is very little.

All I can say is that I'm glad I'm retiring. Teachers' pensions are still paid monthly!

ian103

not sure that there is a problem as you are paid in a 20 day cycle, so not convinced you have been underpaid - its just been forced on you with little or no proper explanation.

it should all be correct when you get the last payment, if not this is the time to address it.