Current procedure for dealing with private parking invoices?

zzzLazyDaisy

First, thanks for all the great advice on here, and advance apologies as I may be asking a question oft repeated (I have followed numerous links in various threads, but haven't really found an answer to my question).

So here goes:

I am regularly asked for help by people who have received these scam invoices (not because I am an expert, but because I am a retired solicitor, so I presumably know everything about the law, right? Wrong!). Anyway, based on information on this thread, my advice has always been to ignore the invoice, sit out the chain letters, and eventually the chances are that they will go away.

It seems that the advice is now to appeal the invoice, get a POPLA number, and then appeal to POPLA. I can see that this would cause maximum inconvenience and expense to the private parking company, but my problem is that the people who come to me are generally elderly or vulnerable, and although they will sit and do nothing on my advice, they are more likely to pay (even though they can't afford it) than actively challenge the invoice through POPLA. They just don't have the resources to cope with that level of stress and involvement.

So I have two questions:

1 Is ignoring the 'pcn' now bad advice (ie is there a higher risk than before of it leading to a court case?)

2 If appealing, and then going to POPLA is now the way to go, do we have a set of standard template letters (because it is going to be me that has to deal with the process.....)

Thanks for your help.

Dx

nigelbb

1) Yes
2) There are a variety of successful approaches that have been used. This is a particularly good one http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=77845&st=20&p=827429&#entry827429

Given your background & experience you might want to sign up to contribute on that forum as no disrespect to the regular posters on MSE but there is a higher class of discussion on the finer points of contract law & POFA 2012 over on PePiPoo.

zzzLazyDaisy

Thanks that is really useful (though I didn't particularly want to get involved to that extent.... hey ho... )

Dx

Guys_Dad

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

1 Is ignoring the 'pcn' now bad advice (ie is there a higher risk than before of it leading to a court case?)

2 If appealing, and then going to POPLA is now the way to go, do we have a set of standard template letters (because it is going to be me that has to deal with the process.....)

Thanks for your help.

Dx

The reason for a rethink is that, following POFA 2012, a number of PPCs are getting militant and issuing court papers. Parking Eye in particular.

So, by going through POPLA, you discover their potential court case and have a chance to rehearse your own.

And, being a solicitor, you will appreciate the importance of procedure and adherence to the requirements of the POFA legislation and the British Parking Association guidelines.

If you read through a few threads, you will see the advantages of POFA. In particular, read the sticky by Aaron Aardvaark at the top of this forum and you will see what wins and loses at POPLA.

POPLA, however, don't seem to follow the laws of contract and penalty, but motorists who lose can still opt not to pay and take a chance on court or the PPC dropping the case.


There is a standard appeal to the PPC that Stroma has prepared. This is to force them to avoid delaying tactics and give you a POPLA code.

I prepared an initial list of bullet points to include in appeals

1. Do not make an appeal to the PPC till you receive the Notice to Keeper. This gives you time to assemble your case.

2. I/We didn't do it. If it is genuinely the wrong vehicle and you can prove it, this is the clincher. If it is an ANPR system, and they are using "first in last out", demand a full extract of all photos for the period in question that shows you entering and leaving twice, and if you have receipts that shows you elsewhere in between, so much the better.

3. The PPC has no contract with the landowner that allows them to charge me. Always demand that they produce documentation to POPLA. This should be in EVERY POPLA appeal.

4. The signs are not compliant with the BPA requirements. Check out the BPA COP and get them on the slightest error.

5. They failed to keep to the timescales as laid out in the BPA COP and POFA. Keep the paperwork and ensure that they have followed that to the letter.

6. The amount they are trying to charge is too high. Currently the BPA suggest £100 is the upper limit of the non-discounted charge.

There are other more detailed appeals that have been done - someone will give you the links - and these may appeal to you, as an ex solicitor!
Hope this helps.

zzzLazyDaisy

Thanks Guy's Dad, for such a useful 'tick sheet', that's really helpful.

I'll read Aaron Aardvaark's sticky as suggested.

...And yes, you're right, links to successful Appeals will certainly appeal to my lawyer's brain! Does POPLA have a central data base of leading appeal transcripts that are available to the public (like the Employment Appeals Tribunal and the Court of Appeal) or is it a case of knowing where to look and who to ask?

Thanks again

Dx

nigelbb

Guys_Dad wrote: »

1. Do not make an appeal to the PPC till you receive the Notice to Keeper. This gives you time to assemble your case.

There are better reasons than stalling for time to wait for the NTK. In order to invoke POFA 2012 to pursue the keeper for unpaid parking charges the PPC must jump through a number of hoops & they all stumble at some stage of the proceedings. More importantly it keeps your powder dry by not confirming who the driver was & if they cannot pursue the keeper because they have not complied with POFA requirements then they are stuck. "I was not the driver" is still a strong point in any defence

HO87

@zzzLazyDaisy

There are a number of other somewhat subtler issues in play with regard to the advice to challenge and then appeal to POPLA which I'm sure you will understand. Aside from the disruption and inconvenience that might be a by-product of the challenge/appeal process, given the fact that some companies have recently become surprisingly litigious, is that should court proceedings be issued one can demonstrate that you have used the available ADR routes. I'm sure you'll understand the advantages of this.

I second what nigelbb and G_D have said. POFA procedures and the BPA Code of Practice offer far too many opportunities for companies to trip up not to want to make full use of them. To illustrate the point (and there are plenty of others) I would add that since POFA came in to force (1/10/12) I have yet to see a Notice to Driver or a Notice to Keeper that complies with the law.

I hope that paints a picture. BTW - another pair of legal eyes contributing to the discussion on Pepipoo is always welcome.

trisontana

Smart Parking are issuing a "Notice to Owner", which is non compliant.

Regarding asking for the contract, PE are using a ruse where, instead of the actual contract, they are producing a generic "witness statement" signed by a lowly minion of a property management company confirming the existence of a contract, but not giving any details of said contract.

zzzLazyDaisy

Thanks for your replies, it seems that I may have stumbled upon something to keep my brain active and ticking over - which is always a good thing!

I'll have a good read and get up to speed.

Dx