Loft conversion - fire regulations query

martinsurrey

monty-doggy wrote: »

My point is my statement exactly. I only have one. Why the need for sarcasm??

It’s not sarcasm, telling the OP what you have in no way helps, as it could be based on an entirely different situation or entirely different building regulations, or could just be a bodge that the last owners did (after getting building regs sign off)

monty-doggy

Well I am renting (thought I put that but I didn't)

I'm sure I wouldn't be renting it in a condition that wasn't safe.

martinsurrey

monty-doggy wrote: »

Well I am renting (thought I put that but I didn't)

I'm sure I wouldn't be renting it in a condition that wasn't safe.

What makes you sure?

As you have described it, the loft conversion in the house you're renting wouldn’t pass building regulations now, or anytime in the last 10 years+ (as long back as I've been interested in building regs).

Tirian

pmlindyloo wrote: »

If I were in your position and before you make any decisions I would be telephoning your local Building Control and asking for their advice.

It is always best to get these things sorted with the correct authority.

You will need a Building Regulations certificate.

Before your builder begins work it is vital (in my opinion) that he knows exactly what Building Regulations require. It is far better to have an estimate based on what is required by BR than on what your builder believes is needed. You do not want to have nasty 'add-ons' because of work that your builder has not estimated for but is required in order to get your certificate.

Uh, we're way before the stage of anyone starting doing any work. We're at the stage of having a couple of people look at the space and tell us what might be possible in there, and what sort of things we'd need to take into account. By that measure, our builder guy has done a sterling job to date.

We'd need to submit drawings the council before they would give approval, so the question now is whether we bother getting drawings made if there is no alternative to replacing all the doors in the house. Because if that's so, the drawings will be a waste of time and money.

martinsurrey

In that case if the doors are a complete show stopper, I wouldn’t bother.

But the regulations on basement conversions are almost as bad, as you would either need an external door or egress window (so a fire escape) in the basement, or we’re back to a protected staircase, which means all doors FD.

An egress window has to be openable from no more than 110 cm from the floor, which isn’t practical in most basements.

sorry to be the bearer of not great news.

(see the same link section 2.13 and 2.8)

Tirian

Well, on the plus side, the basement already has a window so there's a bit more hope there.

Frankly, for the cost of the loft conversion, I'm not really prepared to ruin the features that attracted us to the house in the first place. There are plenty of bigger houses around here - we may as well look at moving.

I think the bigger question would probably be whether the basement could be made dry enough. We had some problems with damp on the ground floor until we got a dehumidifier and installed a proper extractor fan in the bathroom. The cellar itself is a typical Victorian cellar really and as such pretty damp so anyway, we'll see.

But for the moment, I'm quite inclined to skip the loft deal and spend the money on double glazing, and knocking out the chimney breast in the front bedroom & lounge to give a bit more space.

monty-doggy

martinsurrey wrote: »

What makes you sure?

As you have described it, the loft conversion in the house you're renting wouldn’t pass building regulations now, or anytime in the last 10 years+ (as long back as I've been interested in building regs).

Why not? It's been done to a good standard. Has 3 windows a staircase and a fire door?i

Tirian

martinsurrey wrote: »

In that case if the doors are a complete show stopper, I wouldn’t bother.

They probably are. They are all solid wood, stained not painted - and all in matching sculpted door frames (which also match the sculpted bannisters and skirting boards and stair well, and the ceiling beams). Two of the doors in question have original stain glass windows in that match the stain glass in the front door and rear lounge door, and the landing window through to the sutdy. So replacing them actually loses us quite a lot of character - and is potentially problematic in terms of finding fire doors that won't just look completely crap and out of place planted in the existing doorframes.

And that is, of course, assuming that the entire doorframes don't need to be replaced - which I am guessing could well be the case. At that point, given that we are talking about potentially 7 doors (8 actually, if the door to the cellar stairwell is included) then it's going to be a massive additional cost.

sammyjammy

Tirian wrote: »

Won't those people also have trouble when they try to sell? Presumably a survey would note the date of the extension and lack of the fire doors ..?

I've had a think about the external staircase. It might be just about feasible, though we would have to lose a lean-to at the bottom of the house.

The guy also mentioned the possibility of designating a first floor window as fire access window of some sort. I'm not sure quite how that would work, and he didn't elaborate ... but if that were a possibility then we'd certainly consider that. Sprinklers would presumably have to go on every level? If so, then as you say that's out of the question really.

My third bedroom is in on the second floor of my victorian terrace which would have been an attic. This bedroom has no door on it at all and when I had my windows replaced they recommended one of the windows to be tilt and turn so that they whole window can be opened as an escape route, which I did, maybe this is what he means.

Tirian

martinsurrey wrote: »

What I have known people to do (but don’t agree with) is to buy the cheapest fire doors they can, put them on to get building regs sign off, and then change them back to their old ones once the dust has settled...

I DO NOT recommend this as the fire doors could save someone’s life, but that doesn’t stop people doing it.

Some other people have suggested we do this. But having thought about it there are numerous other problems with this.

1) You have to store doors somewhere (for us it would be 2 if we wanted to keep the stain glass panel doors ... or 8 if we wanted to keep all).

2) You have to put up the fire doors if you want to sell the house. If they're cheap / jar with the overall decor then it won't help the sale.

3) I strongly suspect that this would invalidate the buildings insurance. So if any other problem arose with the house, the insurance co. could probably refuse a payout on the basis that it was in fact an uninsurable property.