Tips on buying older buildings

lessonlearned

Hello nice people. May I pick your brains??.

As some of you are aware from my Diary of a House Search thread I am looking to help my boys buy a house.

We have spotted a property and are about to make an offer but before doing so I thought I would ask for some tips and advice.

The property we have in mind is Grade II listed, in a conservation area. Constructed in 1756.

Although I have lived in and renovated plenty of older properties I've never purchased anything as old as this and have never bought a listed building before.

Now obviously if we decide to proceed then we will have a full building survey done, but it looks in good nick and given that is has stood intact for 250 years or so I think we can assume it is structurally sound. Of course you never know what's lying in wait so we will have it thoroughly checked out.

We shall also arrange a meeting with the conservation officer to talk things through. TBH we don't want or need to make any structural alterations or change anything much. Whatever we do will be a light touch and will be sympathetic and gentle. A couple of fireplaces have been bricked up and I would like to reinstate those. I have two very pretty Victorian fireplaces in my garage which are just waiting for a home.:rotfl:

This is my question. Is there anything in particular I should be paying attention to. No flood risk and no proposed local development. The house is in the city so it is already developed and as it's in a conservation area there are pretty tight restrictions anyway, so no concerns there.

There is a log burner :j but obviously I will need to check what kind of fuels can be burned.

I will speak to our broker tomorrow to discuss whether or not we need a specialist mortgage geared to older properties and what restrictions there may be. We have a healthy dollop of cash at hand so could put down a deposit of at least 50% if necessary so again high LTV's shouldn't be a problem.

Any problems with buildings insurance??? The roof is slate not thatch and it is of a brick construction not timber framed.

I am assuming the construction is single brick but there appears to have been plenty of additional insulation, particularly sound insulation because of it's urban location and proximity to the local ring road.

I am also assuming it will have the usual shallow foundations although because it was previously a pub there are substantial cellars which seem to run under the entire house. The cellars seem dry and in good order and the timbers seem in good order, although obviously we will get the surveyor to give everywhere a thorough going over.

We have no intention of attempting to convert the cellars into living space. They will remain as cellars.

Is there anything else I might have missed - anything pertaining to a building of this age that I need to consider.

Your collective wisdom will be much appreciated......

sandsni

Try www.periodproperty.com It's a great site for advice on older houses. Good luck :-)

lessonlearned

Wow - that was quick. Great service.!!!!!!

Thanks for that - will sit and browse through this evening.

Itismehonest

I'd take a look at the listing on the National Heritage List for England to see exactly what it says.
Unless there are named exceptions you will need permission to make any alteration (eg fireplaces).

What Parts of the Building Does Listing Cover?

Listing covers a whole building, including the interior, unless parts of it are specifically excluded in the list description.

It can also cover:
Other attached structures and fixtures
Later extensions or additions
Pre-1948 buildings on land attached to the building. (In the planning system, the term ‘curtilage’ is used to describe this attached land.)

Because all listed buildings are different and unique, what is actually covered by a listing can vary quite widely. It is best, therefore, to check this with your local planning authority.

You need to know thoroughly what is allowed & make sure that no unauthorised alterations have been made anywhere on the whole property. They could have been made many years ago but, if unauthorised, you could find yourself picking up the tab to right someone else's wrongs.

See this old article

Many people are more than happy to live in listed properties but, personally, I wouldn't touch them. I live in a property the origins of which go back pre-1700 but, luckily, didn't appear to be original when the lists were done so wasn't listed. If it had have been we wouldn't have bought it.

Strapped

I'm not sure I would want a listed building in a conservation area tbh. I hope your sons like paperwork. I live in an old cottage in an AONB but fortunately we're not listed, but even we are restricted as to what we can do to the exterior. Full building survey of course, and make sure you highlight any particular areas of concern to the surveyor. The cellars/damp would be a concern for me. Single skin brick with later insulation sounds rife for damp, and difficult to survey for if for example the walls have been dry-lined. (We have no dpc and solid stone walls, so need to be careful to allow the walls to breathe, and you may have similar issues).

I wouldn't install Victorian fireplaces in a property that age, but that's personal taste.

Good luck whatever you decide. Be prepared to spend out for surveys and do act on what they tell you.

Oh, and insurance - haven't had any issues insuring, although you can't do a standard "comparison search" if you have non-standard construction (depending on how an insurer defines non-standard of course).

SG27

Make sure your survey has experience of listed properties. If not they made diagnose subsidence due to wonky floors or damp where it's not a problem.

You don't need a specialist mortgage and we have had no issues with buildings insurance. The quote is no higher than if its not listed. (Our house is early 1700s)

You made need listed building consent to reinstate the fireplaces. Even though you are undoing the sin of bricking up a fireplace!

I love owning a listed building. It's owning part of history and they have so much character and individuality. If they weren't so much more to buy I'd make our next house a listed building too but doubt I could afford bigger one! I can't imagine living in a boring new build or 60s semi. They just seem empty in comparison.

SG27

Also we live in a conservation area which is great too as you know nothing awful is going to be built around you. It's a lovely village and glad it's going to stay that way. Some conservation officers don't like satellite dishes but if you want one just have a look to what everyone else has done.

Oh and I wouldn't put Victorian fireplaces in a Georgian house either

lessonlearned

Point taken about Victorian fireplaces and Georgian buildings, but the rooms are bedrooms not main reception areas, so technically the bedrooms don't need fireplaces. I just happen to have them lying around. I can save them for my next project.....

There is an old "room" which is currently used as a workshop but does have a fireplace in - no idea why. I am assuming that this was once regarded as proper living space so am hoping to reintstate this as a reception room at some point. The fireplace in the main reception room is an inglenook with a wood burner so obviously I won't touch that.

Thanks for your tips so far. A very good point about engaging a surveyor is an expert on old buildings. Not bothered about satellite as such but obviously will need to think about broadband etc.

Shouldn't be too much of an issue because the area is in a city, with "mixed usage".

I am not too concerned about it's listed status because I genuinely do not want to change much. It's perfect as it is. I even like the wallpaper and I'm not actually a wallpaper fan. :rotfl:

The fireplaces aren't an issue, and if we can't reinstate the workshop back to a reception room then it can stay as a workshop/storage area.

I've lived in a conservation area and I like them. What you see is what you get and no-one can muck about with the area and you know they are not going to run a motorway through your back garden......

It's all a bit hypothetical at the moment - we might not get the house. I just wanted to make sure I did my homework first.

Thanks for all you tips and advice so far.

phoebe1989seb

Strapped wrote: »

I'm not sure I would want a listed building in a conservation area tbh. I hope your sons like paperwork. I live in an old cottage in an AONB but fortunately we're not listed, but even we are restricted as to what we can do to the exterior. Full building survey of course, and make sure you highlight any particular areas of concern to the surveyor. The cellars/damp would be a concern for me. Single skin brick with later insulation sounds rife for damp, and difficult to survey for if for example the walls have been dry-lined. (We have no dpc and solid stone walls, so need to be careful to allow the walls to breathe, and you may have similar issues).

I wouldn't install Victorian fireplaces in a property that age, but that's personal taste.

Good luck whatever you decide. Be prepared to spend out for surveys and do act on what they tell you.

Oh, and insurance - haven't had any issues insuring, although you can't do a standard "comparison search" if you have non-standard construction (depending on how an insurer defines non-standard of course).

Same here - our current stone-built house is in an AONB and isn't listed, despite being at least Georgian and possibly older as well as being thatched We've also previously lived in a conservation area and had no issues there.....

We opted not to purchase the Grade 2 listed house we had intended to buy, one of the (many) reasons being the problems we had trying to meet with the local Conservation Officer to discuss our proposals before going ahead.

We felt also that as it was a *project* house (another one that had been partially completed with a half-built extension:o) we would need lots of LBC as there were many changes to be made for whist we adore old buildings (having come from a Tudor house - that also wasn't listed as it had been dismantled, moved 50+ miles and rebuilt in the 1930s and had therefore apparently slipped through the net!), that particular one - having been a shop originally - did need major re-jigging, for instance moving the kitchen from an upstairs bedroom!

In your case Lesson, I guess that's not such an issue, but nonetheless I would tread warily as getting LBC can be a minefield, some COs being more *on-side* than others

As Strapped rightly says, damp will most likely be an issue - prior to our purchase of this place the PO said the internal walls had been known to literally run with water! Fortunately with judicious use of dehumidifiers, airing the place thoroughly and having the woodburner lit, we've managed to keep it in abeyance for the last couple of years - although we do still have one bad area to tackle and many of our internal walls are still un-plastered bare stone - which I loathe!

Use of breathable paint and plaster is important......lime plaster and render should be used rather than modern gypsum or cement and lime wash rather than vinyl emulsions

I echo the previous poster's advice to pop over to the Period Property forum - they certainly know their stuff when it comes to older properties

Good luck with it Lesson and hope none of this has put you/your sons off......doubt it though!

lessonlearned

Thanks for all your comments and tips. I've found them all very helpful and also somewhat reassuring.

I did fear there might be issues with mortgages and buildings insurance but it looks as if we shouldn't encounter any real difficulties there.

I've had a good chat with DS1 tonight and talked through some of the issues you have raised and he is more than happy to proceed. .

Although initially it will be a house share for the boys and myself ultimately the house will be for DS1 so therefore he has the final say. Although maybe not a "forever house" he does intend to put down roots and make it his home for several years.

Although I understand that a listed building does carry some baggage and that the owner must assume responsibility for the building's well being, for us it will be a pleasure owning a beautiful building which is of historic value. Assuming of course we get it - there will be a significant amount of interest. I just hope there isn't a bidding war because it will be at the top end of DS1's budget, even with some financial input from me.

We will not be wanting to make changes and certainly won't want to "modernise it" - just live in it as it is and enjoy it and do any light touch restoration work that may be required and a little bit of decorating. All heritage paints, environmentally suited of course.

As DS1 points out why would we buy a building like that in the first place if all we wanted to do was knock down walls or build extensions. We have no intention of putting in PVC windows or ripping out fireplaces. We even like the colour of the front door:D

There is plenty of space so no need for an extension and the rooms are plenty big enough. We aren't bothered about adding en-suite bathrooms. The only "improvement" we would like to make is a downstairs loo, but it's not a deal breaker if we can't. Also the workshop can stay as a workshop if need be.

The cellars are not a problem. They are dry and serviceable, we do not want to convert them into living space. They are not subject to flooding.

The building was originally a pub so the cellars would have been used for beer. My DS intends to set up a cider press in the garden and use the cellar for his cider, wine and beer.......How poetic. Maybe he will set up one of those trendy new micro-breweries in years to come....The wheel will have turned full circle.

Anyway - thanks for all your help. I shall get the ball rolling tomorrow.:D

Fingers crossed.

sirmosh

I don't have much advice to give you that others haven't already. What I will say though is that unless you encounter any absolutely major issues, all the little things about owning an old house are completely negated by the fact you have a house you can truly love.