Animal/Legal Issue?

Th1984

Could i ask for those with experience of pet law/property law to take a look at my thread over on the pet board:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/61592913#Comment_61592913

Any advice would be truely helpful

Thanks

hcb42

the logical thing to do would be to ensure the dog is not spooking horses, potentially causing accident and even death, now you are aware of the issue then solving it would seem to be the priority. not sure what is being asked otherwise.

Th1984

i am really just after the legal side of it, the last thing i want is to be kicked out or be found to be breaching the law. Before i attend to the behaviour as that will take a while i need to ensure i am on the right side of both my tenancy and dog control laws.

I fully intend to work with the horse owners if they let me to train the dog out of the behaviour but before this ultimatum i wasnt aware it was that much of a problem.

JennyW_2

Trouble is the more your dog is practising this behaviour, then the more it is becoming ingrained - it's now becoming the "norm" to do this. She's now getting a buzz from this and it wont get any better unless you try to refocus her attention.

Have you heard of BAT - behaviour adjustment training?

http://functionalrewards.com/

you may find your dog is scared of horses, hence the behaviour. My dog gets very worked up around horses and if I were to let him continue with the behaviour, it would get worse, however I'm lucky enough not to have horses passing my garden each day so appreciate it's more difficult for you.

Legally, I cant advise - would the CAB be able to help you?

hcb42

http://www.ddawatch.co.uk/other_dog_law

Guest101

Legally, they don't have a leg to stand on. He is on private land and can behave how he wishes, and how you wish him to.

If the parish council worker returns, ask them to immediately vacate your property, as their implied right of access has been withdrawn. You do not have to speak to them at all. If they make any threats, tell them to go right ahead. At the same time tell them that as their rights of access have been withdrawn, any further visits from the parish council will be deemed criminal tresspass and the police will be called to remove and arrest them.

So now your covered legally (Their threats were bs by the way, 1 its private land. 2 your LL cannot, and probaly would not want to, get involved in your business, as long as it is legal, which it is)

What you choose to do, other than the legal ramifications is up to you.

GoldenShadow

I don't know why you'd let your dog do it? I hate dogs barking and tell mine to shut up if they are persistent. Put your dog on a training line and every time it goes off on one pick up the line and being dog inside. He will very quick associate that getting hyped equates to losing outside time including watching ponies. Don't reinforce the behavior by letting it happen.

I think it's best you do the above as a just in case something could happen scenario. Is your dog insured anyway? This is why third party liability is always important, in case an accident does happen and someone tries to hold you (your dog) responsible.

Technically as your dog is on private land it's no one's business. But my concern would be if he gets hyped that he may get hyped out of the garden and there could be an incident. Both mine have been reactive at times (one is a wildlife chaser) and allowing the behavior just lets it escalate.

Th1984

thanks for everyones time replying.

i do want to separate the issues here, i am happy to re train the dog and will look at everyone's replies with my OH tomorrow to devise a common strategy. I am not trying to excuse or ignore poor behaviour, i agree it is unacceptable.

I was mainly concerned that i could end up in bother in the short term either from the PC/Dog Warden/LL but feel that i am ok in that regard. For the record warning signs have been up for 18 months and she is insured for 3rd party risks (+legal cover on home insurance).

Outstanding breadth of responses.

Thanks

princeofpounds

Whilst the parish people are talking BS, as a dog owner you do have strict liability for its actions in many situations.

The dog being on private land is important, but the clear defence this usually provides is if the other party is trespassing, which they would not be, so we are probably in the realms of case law and precedent.

There is a discussion here of some of the issues

http://www.henmansfreeth.co.uk/equine_q_and_a

Th1984

princeofpounds, thank you,

that is the exact type of article/argument we have been looking for.

Werdnal

I too, do not think the Parish Council rep's threats carry any weight. However, if there was an accident, and someone (or a horse) was killed or injured, I suspect there could be a case against you for allowing your dog to cause it and the owner or injured party could sue you. Where there's blame, there's a claim! Its all very well saying you are insured, but would you want it on your conscience that you allowed a nasty injury or possible fatality to occur? Horses break legs must be destroyed, riders can break backs and end up paralysed - sorry to be so frank, but I have been a horse rider on the receiving end of a spook from a dog, and it is not pleasant! Luckily I have never had a nasty injury yet, and it goes with the territory, but that doesn't make what your dog is doing acceptable! OK, so your insurance would pay someone for the loss of their beloved horse, but how would you feel if a horse did something to kill or injure your dog? No amount of money can recompense for the loss of a much loved animal!

What type of fencing do you have? Can you screen the garden at all.

I think your dog needs full on "exposure" to horses, so if the stable and horse owners would agree, you could work out a training scheme to de-sensitise the dog to the horses passing by. I think you should also employ a professional dog behaviourist to witness the dog at home and give you some specific advice.

I wonder if you could also do something to stop the dog getting so close to the fence. It is the sudden rush of the dog towards the horses that is likely to spook them. Would you consider an electric fence? Might be an extreme approach, but if the dog got a mild electric shock every time it ran to the fence, it would soon learn to stay away. The shock is in no way harmful - I use an electric fence to control my pony's grazing and stop her getting too fat.

I also think you need to be scolding the dog far more when it shows this behaviour. You say the dog rushes up to the fence and "having a whale of a time" - you need to reinforce your displeasure at this behaviour. You are pack leader and if you are just letting the dog get away with it without penalty, then it is never going to change.

I know the dog is only protecting their patch from the horsey invaders, which is why it apparently behaves impecably when away from the garden. It sees the horses as a perceived threat, but you need to do you best to distract it before something nasty happens.