Wrongly Accused of Fly Tipping - Help!

sugarplum10

citricsquid wrote: »

Others have mentioned it but I think it's worth explaining exactly what a caution is:



A caution will show on an enhanced CRB check for the next 5 years.

If you did not do this do not accept the caution. As others have said you need to talk to a solicitor, if only to make sure that you do not mistakenly admit liability as a caution can only be given if you admit liability. If you don't want to get a solicitor involved (too expensive etc) then at the very least you need to make sure that you make it clear you refuse to accept the caution at every chance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_caution
https://www.gov.uk/caution-warning-penalty

A caution will show up forever not just 5 years! This is incorrect.

Guest101

IN this case the police are dealing with it. AND they still have no powers of arrest, neither the council, DWP or TFL.

However looking further into the TFL issue, Under the Railways Act the staff have power of detention, they should still call BTP. But they can prosecute, you are correct. (learn something new everyday).

Guest101

sinbad182 wrote: »

Nope, fare evasion is a criminal offence under the regulation of railways act 1889. Bylaw offences are also presented in court but generally only concurrently with the statute offence of fare evasion.

LU inspectors stop, caution, question and report under PACE. The prosecutions team present it in court, with the inspector acting as witness if necessary. An individual doesn't have to be arrested to be questioned under caution, although inspectors have the legal power of arrest for fare evasion offences under Mulberry vs Allsop. I never advise them to exercise this though, as its hugely contentious!

Yes i just saw about this. Are you sure it's powers of arrest, rather than detention? Anyway, you're right on about this one. Something new learnt, cheers.

I've looked into this and can not find anywhere regarding powers of arrest or detention for any TFL staff.

Just double checked this, there is no specific power of arrest, outside of Common Law. But on the underground there is a power to detain whilst the police arrive, this does not apply to buses, trams etc. Just the underground, as covered by the railways act.

Guest101

sugarplum10 wrote: »

A caution will show up forever not just 5 years! This is incorrect.

Yep, correct, but it is spent after 5 years. 4 months to go for me!

sinbad182

Guest101 wrote: »

Yes i just saw about this. Are you sure it's powers of arrest, rather than detention? Anyway, you're right on about this one. Something new learnt, cheers.

I've looked into this and can not find anywhere regarding powers of arrest or detention for any TFL staff.

The powers of detention (apologies, I said arrested before) come from the RRA 1889 section 5, and are enforceable under the 'three fails' of failure to present a valid ticket, failure to pay the fare required, and failure to give name and address/gives false details.

The powers apply to any officer or servant of the railway, and were upheld in court after a challenge in 1991 (the case I mentioned above).

As I say, we do not reccomend inspectors ever use this as its a sticky issue with TFL legal, consumer groups and unions!

Guest101

sinbad182 wrote: »

The powers of detention (apologies, I said arrested before) come from the RRA 1889 section 5, and are enforceable under the 'three fails' of failure to present a valid ticket, failure to pay the fare required, and failure to give name and address/gives false details.

The powers apply to any officer or servant of the railway, and were upheld in court after a challenge in 1991 (the case I mentioned above).

As I say, we do not reccomend inspectors ever use this as its a sticky issue with TFL legal, consumer groups and unions!

No worries, i did eventually find the powers of detention. It can be tricky, so you're right not to be liberal with the power. Very interesting Act. Use of PACE is good, unless the suspect refuses to understand the caution and asks to refer to PACE, can get tricky.

I say this because, once cautioned, you can utilise whatever he says to you, but the waiting game can be quite interesting on both sides. If the suspect is in a rush, then no worries, but if they are happy to wait, and wait and wait. There must be a point at which the inspector would simply give in (i'm not sugesting this is right, just lways interesting to discover new thinsg about the law - i dont even live in london)

sugarplum10

Guest101 wrote: »

Yep, correct, but it is spent after 5 years. 4 months to go for me!

thats true yes it is spent after 5 years but the poster was saying it will drop off an enhanced CRB after 5 years, this is not true it will always have to be disclosed for CRB purposed as even spent ones show up!:eek:
good luck for 4 months.:)

Guest101

sugarplum10 wrote: »

thats true yes it is spent after 5 years but the poster was saying it will drop off an enhanced CRB after 5 years, this is not true it will always have to be disclosed for CRB purposed as even spent ones show up!:eek:
good luck for 4 months.:)

Thanks only time i've ever had any bother and it was a 'fair cop', am glad as I wnt to apply to be a special and whilst a spent caution doesnt hinder me, and current one does, been waiting ages!

Your spot on though, enhanced crb will show it. I think alot is made of cautions, in reality most employers are fine with spent cautions (obviously not always!), my friend is a teacher now, but had a conviction for GBH - though i should explain from a fight in his younger days. He's an excellent teacher and we all make mistakes.

paye

i wouldn't lose sleep over it.

sugarplum10

Guest101 wrote: »

Thanks only time i've ever had any bother and it was a 'fair cop', am glad as I wnt to apply to be a special and whilst a spent caution doesnt hinder me, and current one does, been waiting ages!

Your spot on though, enhanced crb will show it. I think alot is made of cautions, in reality most employers are fine with spent cautions (obviously not always!), my friend is a teacher now, but had a conviction for GBH - though i should explain from a fight in his younger days. He's an excellent teacher and we all make mistakes.

Im am in Nursing and a few of my collegues had spent cautions for shoplifting as a teen or fighting as a teen, they are now Nurses/ medical professionals, as long as you disclose it and are honest from the start I think most employers understand that we are all humans and make mistakes as wreckless teenagers! LOL
what are the specials?? Is it a type of police department??