SORN OK for vehicle in private car park?

missile

Hi,

Can anyone confirm whether it is an offence to keep a vehicle in a large privately owned residential car park adjacent to flats. The vehicle has no TAX, MOT or insurance.

It is not clear from the guidance http://www.dft.gov.uk/dvla/forms/~/media/pdf/leaflets/INS107.ashx

make a SORN (if you do not use or keep your vehicle on a public road – for example, in a garage, on a drive or on private land).

Is a car park to which the public have free access, private land?

Rover_Driver

A SORN declaration is valid as long as the vehicle is not on a public road - a road maintainable at public expense - s.31B(3) & s.62, Vehicles Excise and Registration Act 1994.

Hintza

But you might run foul of the T&Cs of the car park which might require you to have your car taxed and insured. (Mainly to stop wrecks arriving and never leaving.)

Yorkie1

Rover_Driver wrote: »

A SORN declaration is valid as long as the vehicle is not on a public road - a road maintainable at public expense - s.31B(3) & s.62, Vehicles Excise and Registration Act 1994.

This relates to the VEL offences, which are committed on roads maintainable at public expense, as you say.

The OP's dilemma relates to the offence of Using a vehicle without insurance, which can be committed on a road or other public place - a different definition from the VEL offences.

If the car park is truly open at all times to the general public without restriction, then I think it is certainly arguable that insurance would be required.

The offence of No Insurance is distinct from the offence of Keeping a vehicle which doesn't meet insurance requirements - for which SORN and off-road would suffice.

Ultrasonic

I'd suggest that the OP phones the DVLA and asks, it's the only way to know for certain.

Rover_Driver

Yorkie1 wrote: »

If the car park is truly open at all times to the general public without restriction, then I think it is certainly arguable that insurance would be required.

It depends on the word 'access', and if it is considered to be a public place - is it a private car park restricted to residents etc. or available for the public to use?
Just because the public can access the car park (the ability to enter it), doesn't necessarily mean that they have access (the authority to enter it).

Stooby2

It depends on the word 'access', and if it is considered to be a public place - is it a private car park restricted to residents etc. or available for the public to use?
Just because the public can access the car park (the ability to enter it), doesn't necessarily mean that they have access (the authority to enter it)

For there to be no authority to access there has to be clear signs at the entrance stating the car park is not for public use or there is no public access and it is private land. I would guess that the OP's car park wouldn't have these - signs just saying "resident parking only" isn't enough. And I would hazard a guess there may well be something in the residents agreement/tenancy/whatever that states untaxed vehicles can't be kept there.

Rover_Driver

I agree, it all depends on the details of the actual car park if it is considered to be a public place or not.

Aretnap

Stooby2 wrote: »

For there to be no authority to access there has to be clear signs at the entrance stating the car park is not for public use or there is no public access and it is private land. I would guess that the OP's car park wouldn't have these - signs just saying "resident parking only" isn't enough.

I don't think that's quite correct. The test of whether a place is a public place seems to be two-fold

(1) Does the general public (as opposed to a special class of people, such as residents and their guests) actually use it?
(2) If so, do they use it in defiance of a prohibition - explicit or implied?

The onus would be on the prosecution to prove that it's a public place. If they can't prove (1) actual usage by the public, then the question of authority doesn't even arise. As far as (2) is concerned, a barrier or "keep out" sign is good evidence that a place is private, but the absence of a sign doesn't prove that it's public - an implied restriction (eg the private driveway in front of your house) is just as good. See Hallet and Planton - both drink drive cases where the prosecution failed to offer evidence of actual public use - or the similar Scottish case of Yates. Hallet seems particularly relevant to a resident's car park.

missile

Please be advised, there are no barriers or signs and the car park is freely accessible and used by non residents.

AFIK, there are no requirements detailed in the title deeds.

My concern is there are currently 9 vehicles parked without road tax. This restricts the spaces available for residents and visitors. One was last taxed and has not moved since 2011. The property management company claim there is nothing they can do if the vehicles are sorned.

Exemplar

I live on a managed estate with no council owned roads or residents car parks. The management company here will sticker and then remove any cars in any resident car parks which fail to meet criteria I.e. insurance, tax, mot etc. unfortunately by either buying or renting here it comes as part of the package! Whether its legal or not I don't know but I have seem them sticker vehicles..