Virus

thomas01155

Torjan attack avast keeps finding win32:agent-GXN,win32:agent-GVO,win32:agent-GTZ
run ad-adware,spy bot,trend micro online scan but no luck. It keeps hiding in Firefox cache it only picks it up after i run ccleaner

Hers my hijack this log

Logfile of HijackThis v1.99.1
Scan saved at 21:48:07, on 25/05/2007
Platform: Windows XP SP2 (WinNT 5.01.2600)
MSIE: Internet Explorer v7.00 (7.00.6000.16441)

Running processes:
C:\WINDOWS\System32\smss.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\winlogon.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\services.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\lsass.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\Ati2evxx.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\svchost.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\ZoneLabs\vsmon.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\Ati2evxx.exe
C:\Program Files\DigitalPersona\Bin\DPWinLct.exe
C:\Program Files\Alwil Software\Avast4\aswUpdSv.exe
C:\Program Files\Alwil Software\Avast4\ashServ.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spoolsv.exe
C:\Program Files\Diskeeper Corporation\Diskeeper\DkService.exe
C:\Program Files\DigitalPersona\Bin\DpHost.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\SPYWAR~2\sp_rsser.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\svchost.exe
C:\Program Files\DigitalPersona\Bin\DPFUSMgr.exe
C:\Program Files\Alwil Software\Avast4\ashMaiSv.exe
C:\Program Files\Alwil Software\Avast4\ashWebSv.exe
C:\WINDOWS\Explorer.EXE
C:\WINDOWS\system32\VTTimer.exe
C:\Program Files\LClock\LClock.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\ALWILS~1\Avast4\ashDisp.exe
C:\WINDOWS\SOUNDMAN.EXE
C:\PROGRA~1\SPYWAR~2\SpywareTerminatorShield.exe
C:\Program Files\Java\jre1.6.0\bin\jusched.exe
C:\Program Files\Common Files\InstallShield\UpdateService\issch.exe
C:\Program Files\Zone Labs\ZoneAlarm\zlclient.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\ctfmon.exe
C:\Program Files\PeerGuardian2\pg2.exe
C:\Program Files\Wireless LAN Utility\Am772cfg.exe
C:\Program Files\CCleaner\ccleaner.exe
C:\Program Files\Alwil Software\Avast4\ashLogV.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\Mozilla Firefox\firefox.exe
C:\Program Files\hijack this\HijackThis.exe

R0 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Local Page =
O2 - BHO: Adobe PDF Reader Link Helper - !!06849E9F-C8D7-4D59-B87D-784B7D6BE0B3} - C:\Program Files\Common Files\Adobe\Acrobat\ActiveX\AcroIEHelper.dll
O2 - BHO: BitComet ClickCapture - !!39F7E362-828A-4B5A-BCAF-5B79BFDFEA60} - C:\Program Files\BitComet\tools\BitCometBHO_1.1.3.28.dll
O2 - BHO: (no name) - !!53707962-6F74-2D53-2644-206D7942484F} - C:\PROGRA~1\SPYBOT~1\SDHelper.dll
O2 - BHO: SSVHelper Class - !!761497BB-D6F0-462C-B6EB-D4DAF1D92D43} - C:\Program Files\Java\jre1.6.0\bin\ssv.dll
O2 - BHO: (no name) - !!7E853D72-626A-48EC-A868-BA8D5E23E045} - (no file)
O3 - Toolbar: StylerToolBar - {D2F8F919-690B-4EA2-9FA7-A203D1E04F75} - C:\Program Files\Styler\TB\StylerTB.dll
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [VTTrayp] VTtrayp.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [VTTimer] VTTimer.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [LClock] C:\Program Files\LClock\LClock.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [avast!] C:\PROGRA~1\ALWILS~1\Avast4\ashDisp.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [IMJPMIG8.1] "C:\WINDOWS\IME\imjp8_1\IMJPMIG.EXE" /Spoil /RemAdvDef /Migration32
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [IMEKRMIG6.1] C:\WINDOWS\ime\imkr6_1\IMEKRMIG.EXE
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [SoundMan] SOUNDMAN.EXE
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [SpywareTerminator] "C:\PROGRA~1\SPYWAR~2\SpywareTerminatorShield.exe"
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [SunJavaUpdateSched] "C:\Program Files\Java\jre1.6.0\bin\jusched.exe"
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [ISUSPM Startup] "C:\Program Files\Common Files\InstallShield\UpdateService\isuspm.exe" -startup
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [ISUSScheduler] "C:\Program Files\Common Files\InstallShield\UpdateService\issch.exe" -start
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [ZoneAlarm Client] "C:\Program Files\Zone Labs\ZoneAlarm\zlclient.exe"
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [ctfmon.exe] C:\WINDOWS\system32\ctfmon.exe
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [PeerGuardian] C:\Program Files\PeerGuardian2\pg2.exe
O4 - Startup: AM772CFG.lnk = ?
O8 - Extra context menu item: &D&ownload &with BitComet - res://C:\Program Files\BitComet\BitComet.exe/AddLink.htm
O8 - Extra context menu item: &D&ownload all video with BitComet - res://C:\Program Files\BitComet\BitComet.exe/AddVideo.htm
O8 - Extra context menu item: &D&ownload all with BitComet - res://C:\Program Files\BitComet\BitComet.exe/AddAllLink.htm
O9 - Extra button: (no name) - AutorunsDisabled - (no file)
O9 - Extra button: (no name) - !!08B0E5C0-4FCB-11CF-AAA5-00401C608501} - C:\Program Files\Java\jre1.6.0\bin\ssv.dll
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Sun Java Console - !!08B0E5C0-4FCB-11CF-AAA5-00401C608501} - C:\Program Files\Java\jre1.6.0\bin\ssv.dll
O9 - Extra button: (no name) - {e2e2dd38-d088-4134-82b7-f2ba38496583} - %windir%\Network Diagnostic\xpnetdiag.exe (file missing)
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: @xpsp3res.dll,-20001 - {e2e2dd38-d088-4134-82b7-f2ba38496583} - %windir%\Network Diagnostic\xpnetdiag.exe (file missing)
O9 - Extra button: Messenger - {FB5F1910-F110-11d2-BB9E-00C04F795683} - C:\Program Files\Messenger\msmsgs.exe
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Windows Messenger - {FB5F1910-F110-11d2-BB9E-00C04F795683} - C:\Program Files\Messenger\msmsgs.exe
O11 - Options group: [INTERNATIONAL] International*
O16 - DPF: !!215B8138-A3CF-44C5-803F-8226143CFC0A} (Trend Micro ActiveX Scan Agent 6.6) - http://housecall65.trendmicro.com/housecall/applet/html/native/x86/win32/activex/hcImpl.cab
O16 - DPF: !!2250C29C-C5E9-4F55-BE4E-01E45A40FCF1} (CMediaMix Object) - http://musicmix.messenger.msn.com/Medialogic.CAB
O16 - DPF: !!4EFA317A-8569-4788-B175-5BAF9731A549} (Microsoft Virtual Server VMRC Advanced Control) - https://www.microsoft.com/resources/virtuallabs/ActiveX/VMRCActiveXClient1.cab
O16 - DPF: !!5D6F45B3-9043-443D-A792-115447494D24} (UnoCtrl Class) - http://messenger.zone.msn.com/EN-US/a-UNO1/GAME_UNO1.cab
O16 - DPF: !!6414512B-B978-451D-A0D8-FCFDF33E833C} (WUWebControl Class) - http://update.microsoft.com/windowsupdate/v6/V5Controls/en/x86/client/wuweb_site.cab?1167087885593
O16 - DPF: !!8E0D4DE5-3180-4024-A327-4DFAD1796A8D} (MessengerStatsClient Class) - http://messenger.zone.msn.com/binary/MessengerStatsClient.cab31267.cab
O16 - DPF: !!9A9307A0-7DA4-4DAF-B042-5009F29E09E1} (ActiveScan Installer Class) - http://acs.pandasoftware.com/activescan/as5free/asinst.cab
O16 - DPF: {C3F79A2B-B9B4-4A66-B012-3EE46475B072} (MessengerStatsClient Class) - http://messenger.zone.msn.com/binary/MessengerStatsPAClient.cab56907.cab
O18 - Protocol: livecall - !!828030A1-22C1-4009-854F-8E305202313F} - C:\PROGRA~1\MSNMES~1\MSGRAP~1.DLL
O18 - Protocol: ms-help - !!314111C7-A502-11D2-BBCA-00C04F8EC294} - C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\Help\hxds.dll
O18 - Protocol: msnim - !!828030A1-22C1-4009-854F-8E305202313F} - C:\PROGRA~1\MSNMES~1\MSGRAP~1.DLL
O20 - Winlogon Notify: DPWLN - C:\WINDOWS\system32\DPWLEvHd.dll
O20 - Winlogon Notify: WgaLogon - C:\WINDOWS\
O20 - Winlogon Notify: WRNotifier - WRLogonNTF.dll (file missing)
O21 - SSODL: WPDShServiceObj - {AAA288BA-9A4C-45B0-95D7-94D524869DB5} - C:\WINDOWS\system32\WPDShServiceObj.dll
O23 - Service: avast! iAVS4 Control Service (aswUpdSv) - ALWIL Software - C:\Program Files\Alwil Software\Avast4\aswUpdSv.exe
O23 - Service: Ati HotKey Poller - ATI Technologies Inc. - C:\WINDOWS\system32\Ati2evxx.exe
O23 - Service: ATI Smart - Unknown owner - C:\WINDOWS\system32\ati2sgag.exe
O23 - Service: avast! Antivirus - ALWIL Software - C:\Program Files\Alwil Software\Avast4\ashServ.exe
O23 - Service: avast! Mail Scanner - Unknown owner - C:\Program Files\Alwil Software\Avast4\ashMaiSv.exe" /service (file missing)
O23 - Service: avast! Web Scanner - Unknown owner - C:\Program Files\Alwil Software\Avast4\ashWebSv.exe" /service (file missing)
O23 - Service: AVG Anti-Spyware Guard - Anti-Malware Development a.s. - C:\Program Files\Grisoft\AVG Anti-Spyware 7.5\guard.exe
O23 - Service: Diskeeper - Diskeeper Corporation - C:\Program Files\Diskeeper Corporation\Diskeeper\DkService.exe
O23 - Service: Windows XP FUS Manager (DPFUSMgr) - DigitalPersona, Inc. - C:\Program Files\DigitalPersona\Bin\DPFUSMgr.exe
O23 - Service: Biometric Authentication Service (DpHost) - DigitalPersona, Inc. - C:\Program Files\DigitalPersona\Bin\DpHost.exe
O23 - Service: Firebird Server - MAGIX Instance (FirebirdServerMAGIXInstance) - MAGIX® - C:\MAGIX\Common\Database\bin\fbserver.exe
O23 - Service: InstallDriver Table Manager (IDriverT) - Macrovision Corporation - C:\Program Files\Common Files\InstallShield\Driver\11\Intel 32\IDriverT.exe
O23 - Service: Spyware Terminator Realtime Shield Service (sp_rssrv) - Crawler.com - C:\PROGRA~1\SPYWAR~2\sp_rsser.exe
O23 - Service: TrueVector Internet Monitor (vsmon) - Zone Labs, LLC - C:\WINDOWS\system32\ZoneLabs\vsmon.exe

Browntoa

I'd fix these

O2 - BHO: (no name) - !!7E853D72-626A-48EC-A868-BA8D5E23E045} - (no file)

O4 - Startup: AM772CFG.lnk = ?

O9 - Extra button: (no name) - AutorunsDisabled - (no file)

O9 - Extra button: (no name) - {e2e2dd38-d088-4134-82b7-f2ba38496583} - %windir%\Network Diagnostic\xpnetdiag.exe (file missing)

O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: @xpsp3res.dll,-20001 - {e2e2dd38-d088-4134-82b7-f2ba38496583} - %windir%\Network Diagnostic\xpnetdiag.exe (file missing)

O20 - Winlogon Notify: WRNotifier - WRLogonNTF.dll (file missing)

O23 - Service: avast! Mail Scanner - Unknown owner - C:\Program Files\Alwil Software\Avast4\ashMaiSv.exe" /service (file missing)

O23 - Service: avast! Web Scanner - Unknown owner - C:\Program Files\Alwil Software\Avast4\ashWebSv.exe" /service (file missing)


have you run your scans with Avast + Spybot etc in sfae mode ??

if not then boot straight into safe mode and scan, that should remove everything

thomas01155

Avg Antispyware wont update keeps getting a server error

Browntoa

try a manual download from here

http://www.ewido.net/en/download/updates/

On this page you can find and download the signature database of AVG Anti-Spyware as seperate installers.

Downloading the installers can be useful if you are unable to run the integrated online-update or want to use the software on a computer that doesn't have or can't have access (suspected infection) to the internet.
Daily Signatures
This installer includes the newest signatures from the last 2-3 days.



Full database
This installer always includes the complete database.

thomas01155

ONly kapersky found this Trojan-Dropper.Win32.Mudrop.z how do i get rid of it

---

KASPERSKY ONLINE SCANNER REPORT
Saturday, May 26, 2007 2:22:18 PM
Operating System: Microsoft Windows XP Professional, Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
Kaspersky Online Scanner version: 5.0.83.0
Kaspersky Anti-Virus database last update: 26/05/2007
Kaspersky Anti-Virus database records: 309817

---

Scan Settings:
Scan using the following antivirus database: standard
Scan Archives: true
Scan Mail Bases: true

Scan Target - My Computer:
A:\
C:\
\
E:\
F:\

Scan Statistics:
Total number of scanned objects: 103604
Number of viruses found: 1
Number of infected objects: 5 / 0
Number of suspicious objects: 0
Duration of the scan process: 01:16:52

Infected Object Name / Virus Name / Last Action
C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Microsoft\Crypto\RSA\MachineKeys\1d5f3099dfb286a770488edc875a7f3a_d7e0f6a0-2e4a-4b32-81c8-6666dd7ac797 Object is locked skipped
C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Microsoft\Crypto\RSA\MachineKeys\58891b6a8967cf3e2dbda601bfbcb972_d7e0f6a0-2e4a-4b32-81c8-6666dd7ac797 Object is locked skipped
C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Microsoft\Crypto\RSA\MachineKeys\5fe5ab194bfea658b310f72c61fe1d8f_d7e0f6a0-2e4a-4b32-81c8-6666dd7ac797 Object is locked skipped
C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Microsoft\Crypto\RSA\MachineKeys\8bc974cd28c718a2db2abbf804e7bf35_d7e0f6a0-2e4a-4b32-81c8-6666dd7ac797 Object is locked skipped
C:\Documents and Settings\LocalService\Cookies\index.dat Object is locked skipped
C:\Documents and Settings\LocalService\Local Settings\Application Data\Microsoft\Windows\UsrClass.dat Object is locked skipped
C:\Documents and Settings\LocalService\Local Settings\Application Data\Microsoft\Windows\UsrClass.dat.LOG Object is locked skipped
C:\Documents and Settings\LocalService\Local Settings\History\History.IE5\index.dat Object is locked skipped
C:\Documents and Settings\LocalService\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5\index.dat Object is locked skipped
C:\Documents and Settings\LocalService\ntuser.dat Object is locked skipped
C:\Documents and Settings\LocalService\ntuser.dat.LOG Object is locked skipped
C:\Documents and Settings\NetworkService\Local Settings\Application Data\Microsoft\Windows\UsrClass.dat Object is locked skipped
C:\Documents and Settings\NetworkService\Local Settings\Application Data\Microsoft\Windows\UsrClass.dat.LOG Object is locked skipped
C:\Documents and Settings\NetworkService\NTUSER.DAT Object is locked skipped
C:\Documents and Settings\NetworkService\ntuser.dat.LOG Object is locked skipped
C:\Documents and Settings\Thomas\Cookies\index.dat Object is locked skipped
C:\Documents and Settings\Thomas\Local Settings\Application Data\Microsoft\Windows\UsrClass.dat Object is locked skipped
C:\Documents and Settings\Thomas\Local Settings\Application Data\Microsoft\Windows\UsrClass.dat.LOG Object is locked skipped
C:\Documents and Settings\Thomas\Local Settings\History\History.IE5\index.dat Object is locked skipped
C:\Documents and Settings\Thomas\Local Settings\Temp\~DF3032.tmp Object is locked skipped
C:\Documents and Settings\Thomas\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files\AntiPhishing\B3BB5BBA-E7D5-40AB-A041-A5B1C0B26C8F.dat Object is locked skipped
C:\Documents and Settings\Thomas\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5\index.dat Object is locked skipped
C:\Documents and Settings\Thomas\ntuser.dat Object is locked skipped
C:\Documents and Settings\Thomas\ntuser.dat.LOG Object is locked skipped
C:\Program Files\Alwil Software\Avast4\DATA\aswResp.dat Object is locked skipped
C:\Program Files\Alwil Software\Avast4\DATA\Avast4.db Object is locked skipped
C:\Program Files\Alwil Software\Avast4\DATA\integ\avast.int Object is locked skipped
C:\Program Files\Alwil Software\Avast4\DATA\log\nshield.log Object is locked skipped
C:\Program Files\Alwil Software\Avast4\DATA\report\Resident protection.txt Object is locked skipped
C:\Program Files\InstallShield Installation Information\!!35CB6715-41F8-4F99-8881-6FC75BF054B0}\setup.exe Infected: Trojan-Dropper.Win32.Mudrop.z skipped
C:\Program Files\InstallShield Installation Information\{E0DB6D6E-2317-4EAF-9896-E2DE6559EF82}\setup.exe Infected: Trojan-Dropper.Win32.Mudrop.z skipped
C:\Program Files\InstallShield Installation Information\{FB08F381-6533-4108-B7DD-039E11FBC27E}\setup.exe Infected: Trojan-Dropper.Win32.Mudrop.z skipped
C:\Program Files\PeerGuardian2\history.db Object is locked skipped
C:\System Volume Information\MountPointManagerRemoteDatabase Object is locked skipped
C:\System Volume Information\_restore{80F09174-9BC6-4D4E-89E5-C2C0C0CCD4B7}\RP63\A0029831.exe Infected: Trojan-Dropper.Win32.Mudrop.z skipped
C:\System Volume Information\_restore{80F09174-9BC6-4D4E-89E5-C2C0C0CCD4B7}\RP82\A0059947.exe Infected: Trojan-Dropper.Win32.Mudrop.z skipped
C:\System Volume Information\_restore{80F09174-9BC6-4D4E-89E5-C2C0C0CCD4B7}\RP98\change.log Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\Debug\PASSWD.LOG Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\Internet Logs\fwdbglog.txt Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\Internet Logs\fwpktlog.txt Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\Internet Logs\IAMDB.RDB Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\Internet Logs\TOM.ldb Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\Internet Logs\tvDebug.log Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\SchedLgU.Txt Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\SoftwareDistribution\EventCache\{C0600442-E9B0-48E2-A1E8-A49A7EF50805}.bin Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\SoftwareDistribution\ReportingEvents.log Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\Sti_Trace.log Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\system32\CatRoot2\edb.log Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\system32\CatRoot2\tmp.edb Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\system32\config\ACEEvent.evt Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\system32\config\Antivirus.Evt Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\system32\config\AppEvent.Evt Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\system32\config\default Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\system32\config\default.LOG Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\system32\config\Internet.evt Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\system32\config\SAM Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\system32\config\SAM.LOG Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\system32\config\SecEvent.Evt Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\system32\config\SECURITY Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\system32\config\SECURITY.LOG Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\system32\config\software Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\system32\config\software.LOG Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\system32\config\SysEvent.Evt Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\system32\config\system Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\system32\config\system.LOG Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\system32\drivers\sptd.sys Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\system32\h323log.txt Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\system32\wbem\Repository\FS\INDEX.BTR Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\system32\wbem\Repository\FS\INDEX.MAP Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\system32\wbem\Repository\FS\MAPPING.VER Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\system32\wbem\Repository\FS\MAPPING1.MAP Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\system32\wbem\Repository\FS\MAPPING2.MAP Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\system32\wbem\Repository\FS\OBJECTS.DATA Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\system32\wbem\Repository\FS\OBJECTS.MAP Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\Temp\Perflib_Perfdata_6e4.dat Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\Temp\Perflib_Perfdata_7d0.dat Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\Temp\ZLT0113d.TMP Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\Temp\ZLT0700c.TMP Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\wiadebug.log Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\wiaservc.log Object is locked skipped
C:\WINDOWS\WindowsUpdate.log Object is locked skipped

Scan process completed.

thomas01155

Scan taken on 26 May 2007 13:28:28 (GMT)
A-Squared
Found nothing
AntiVir
Found nothing
ArcaVir
Found nothing
Avast
Found nothing
AVG Antivirus
Found nothing
BitDefender
Found nothing
ClamAV
Found nothing
Dr.Web
Found nothing
F-Prot Antivirus
Found nothing
F-Secure Anti-Virus
Found nothing
Fortinet
Found nothing
Kaspersky Anti-Virus
Found Trojan-Dropper.Win32.Mudrop.z
NOD32
Found nothing
Norman Virus Control
Found nothing
Panda Antivirus
Found nothing
Rising Antivirus
Found nothing
VirusBuster
Found nothing
VBA32
Found nothing

Browntoa

I reckon false positive, nothing to worry about

thomas01155

ok thanks Trojans only gets picked up half way thought running ccleaner so it probably is hopefully

superscaper

I just tried running kaspersky online scanner and it flagged a keyboard app as infected with a trojan. Considering the app is a logitech exe downloaded directly from logitech's site, I'm pretty sure it isn't a trojan. I think kaspersky's online scanner is a bit over zealous and I've previously found it to bring up false positives. I'm sure that's why it has such a high detection rate, it errs on the side of caution much more than other AVs.