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NHS in a capitalist economy...

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Comments

  • StevieJ
    StevieJ Posts: 20,174 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Maybe we should schedule all the private operations in NHS hospitals for Friday-Saturday ;)
    'Just think for a moment what a prospect that is. A single market without barriers visible or invisible giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power of over 300 million of the worlds wealthiest and most prosperous people' Margaret Thatcher
  • resilie
    resilie Posts: 179 Forumite
    ILW wrote: »
    I said the majority of people working for the NHS. The majority are not frontline clinical staff.
    Well does the IT support guy in your local hospital have to be caring? What's your point exactly?
    Isn't all that matters that ppl with direct patient contact are caring?
  • ILW
    ILW Posts: 18,333 Forumite
    resilie wrote: »
    Well does the IT support guy in your local hospital have to be caring? What's your point exactly?
    Isn't all that matters that ppl with direct patient contact are caring?

    The point is that the IT guy could just a well be working for a private company and NHS buying in the service.
  • Wicked_witch
    Wicked_witch Posts: 722 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture
    We are in an odd situation right now- my son and husband have both had to have specialist medical appointments for a variety of issues this year. In every case, when we have gone to a hospital that is under our PCT (or new equivalent) we've been fobbed off with no actual treatment, despite the GPs referral (orthodontic treatment and pain management). But when we've gone to a hospital further out, they've fallen over themselves to offer full treatment, tests and everything else that could be needed (eye surgery and nasal surgery). I'm left assuming that while hospitals within our area are trying to keep costs down, those outside are able to charge for treating patients from outside their borough... is that actually how it works, or is it just a coincidence that Bexley hospitals are poor and Greenwich and Canterbury ones are good?
  • grizzly1911
    grizzly1911 Posts: 9,965 Forumite
    ILW wrote: »
    The point is that the IT guy could just a well be working for a private company and NHS buying in the service.

    A lot of the back office services are in private hands.
    "If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....

    "big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham
  • ILW
    ILW Posts: 18,333 Forumite
    grizzly1911 wrote: »
    A lot of the back office services are in private hands.
    Exactly. so why all the fuss about the private sector doing some of the more frontline stuff?
  • grizzly1911
    grizzly1911 Posts: 9,965 Forumite
    ILW wrote: »
    Exactly. so why all the fuss about the private sector doing some of the more frontline stuff?

    I should have added that is probably why the services have declined. Contract cleaners anyone.
    "If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....

    "big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham
  • ILW
    ILW Posts: 18,333 Forumite
    grizzly1911 wrote: »
    I should have added that is probably why the services have declined. Contract cleaners anyone.
    The only problem with contract cleaners etc is the contracts. These tend to be written up and enforced by civil servants and are quite often useless. The problem then is that the person responsible is not sacked for being incompetant but continues to draft more useless contracts for a different department.
  • grizzly1911
    grizzly1911 Posts: 9,965 Forumite
    ILW wrote: »
    The only problem with contract cleaners etc is the contracts. These tend to be written up and enforced by civil servants and are quite often useless. The problem then is that the person responsible is not sacked for being incompetant but continues to draft more useless contracts for a different department.

    Whilst those drafting the contracts may well be incompetent the contractors happily exploit the weaknesses to their advantage. If the requirement is nailed down and defined, change control come as in and costs go skyward whether there is areal knock on cost or not.

    IME outsource rarely means cheaper or more effective in the long term. It just ticks a box in change programme benefit realisation - for now - to get sign off to BAU who then spend the extra money, or not, to try and "manage" it. Unrealistic demands on one side and contractors looking to make profit off an originally under priced bid.
    "If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....

    "big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham
  • grizzly1911
    grizzly1911 Posts: 9,965 Forumite
    ILW wrote: »
    The only problem with contract cleaners etc is the contracts. These tend to be written up and enforced by civil servants and are quite often useless. The problem then is that the person responsible is not sacked for being incompetant but continues to draft more useless contracts for a different department.

    Whilst those drafting the contracts may well be incompetent the contractors happily exploit the weaknesses to their advantage. If the requirement is nailed down and defined, change control come as in and costs go skyward whether there is areal knock on cost or not.

    IME outsource rarely means cheaper or more effective in the long term. It just ticks a box in change programme benefit realisation - for now - to get sign off to BAU who then spend the extra money, or not, to try and "manage" it. Unrealistic demands (never specified) on one side and contractors looking to make profit off an originally under priced bid.
    "If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....

    "big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham
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