First Time Buyers - Disillusioned

joujou

Hello,

We are first time home buyers trying to get into the market on a sub £220K 3 bed or 4 bed semi in M33 (Sale, Manchester). We have a "Mortgage Certificate" from our bank that we've shown to the agencies in the area. We registered with them and shown our willingness to complete as soon as possible. Gold dust, right?

So far we have seen about 8 houses and made 3 offers, all three rejected. What's making us disillusioned is that most sellers are over hopeful. Just check out for yourself and compare with the same houses on the same street that have been sold in the last 3 years (the market hasn't moved much during this period) within M33.

Feels like Middle East market haggling :S

I'm begenning to suspect that they are just out there not seriously trying to sell, just putting the house out trying to catch a fool.

The fact that so many houses just went off the market without being sold reinforces this belief.

I'm not sure whether this is just the case in the south of Greater Manchester or more of a nation wide phenomenon.

In the 1.5 months that I've been watching this area three houses sold within our bracket - all because they asked reasonable prices, and they sold within a week or two. I was just not fast enough before someone else snatched them, which shows that there are serious buyers around.

Note to sellers - buyers check the area, if you're asking for 20% more than the the same house down the street then I'm going to offer no more than 20% less. 18% if I'm generous. Stop wasting everyone's time. I'm just not desperate enough to buy for 10% or 20% more than what my prospective neighbours did.

Perhaps I should lower my expectations as to how long the process will take, and just be more patient?

----

Has this been your experience as well?

Based on your own experience, how many house viewings, and offers made did it take you to get what you want?

How long did the whole house hunting experience last?

Why don't estate agents just be honest with me and say - house x, y and z are serious about selling and are willing to entertain reasonable offers?

R_P_W

You made offers that we're not acceptable to the seller - what's the problem?

joujou

R_P_W wrote: »

You made offers that we're not acceptable to the seller - what's the problem?

From my pov they wasted my time. At what they are asking, they will most assuredly get them withdrawn like much of similar hopeful sellers or seriously drop the asking price.

Later in my post, I am wondering how often this occurred in the experience of previous buyers, and what their experience was like.

pops5588

From my very limited experience (I am also a FTB) I don't think that anybody is intentionally wanting to waste your time. A house is only worth what you are prepared to pay for it, regardless of all the other facts and figures. There are people who put in over the asking price because they fall in love with a property and decide they must have it. Everyone is different.

It is worth bearing in mind that every vendor has to recover certain costs. If your offer isn't enough for them to cover the commission fees, the solicitors and for them to be able to move on property-wise then there is, obviously, no way they would accept!

Also, again I am very new at this, 20% does sound quite low. I heard that 10% below asking was reasonable, but double that seems a bit steep.

Just keep looking, I'm sure you will find the one everything happens for a reason!

ValHaller

joujou wrote: »

We have a "Mortgage Certificate" from our bank that we've shown to the agencies in the area.

That may be your mistake. If they have seen your mortgage offer and whether it is 90% or 95%, they know exactly how much they can take you for.

Never show an Estate Agent your AIP until an offer is agreed. And preferably not even then, but get your solicitor to confirm you are good for the offer.

joujou

You mean they know roughly how much I can afford and hence use that as leverage?


My bank basically took our deposit total from our accounts with them, our salaries, our wanted LTV (70%), basically ran that through an automated calculator and printed out the mortgage certificate. I would have thought agencies don't expect us to go to the last penny on the mortgage

I've seen many guides online (including the one on this forum) saying that giving your mortgage certificate shows that you're a serious buyer. To be honest one agent asked for it outright when we made the offer.

ValHaller

joujou wrote: »

You mean they know roughly how much I can afford and hence use that as leverage?


My bank basically took our deposit total from our accounts with them, our salaries, our wanted LTV (70%), basically ran that through an automated calculator and printed out the mortgage certificate. I would have thought agencies don't expect us to go to the last penny on the mortgage

I've seen many guides online (including the one on this forum) saying that giving your mortgage certificate shows that you're a serious buyer. To be honest one agent asked for it outright when we made the offer.

Sadly, the advice to show your mortgage certificate is idiotic. Yes, the agent (who works for the seller) will push you to the last penny and it is often easier with a FTB, because it is not so easy to disguise your savings as it is to be vague about the equity you have in your property.

How much info is on your certificate?

Bella73

We are FTB and the only person who actually saw our certificate was our broker and they phoned the estate agent to say we would be good for what we offered, we could have offered more for mortgage purposes but didn't want the sellers estate agent to know that.

The estate agent just wants every penny and yes they don't care if they push you to the limit of our finances the just want their commission.

We leant very quickly, only tell anyone what you have to tell them, and trust nobody but yourselves as the only people who actually give a toss about our real finances etc are us as a couple.

joujou

ValHaller wrote: »

Sadly, the advice to show your mortgage certificate is idiotic. Yes, the agent (who works for the seller) will push you to the last penny and it is often easier with a FTB, because it is not so easy to disguise your savings as it is to be vague about the equity you have in your property.

How much info is on your certificate?

It's quite brief actually. Something to the effect of:

"We have agreed to lend up to £X based on the information that we have today. This does not constitute an offer".

Granted, the agent can extrapolate from that and add a likely deposit range and work out how much we can afford.

For the two agents to which I've given this certificate, I can call them up again and explain what we can "afford given our future plans".

Still for the same area, there are another dozen or so agencies so I don't think I've screwed it up for good.

grifferz

joujou wrote: »

In the 1.5 months that I've been watching this area three houses sold within our bracket - all because they asked reasonable prices, and they sold within a week or two. I was just not fast enough before someone else snatched them, which shows that there are serious buyers around.

So, you agree there is stuff around, you're just not getting to it fast enough.

Get to know the agents. Make sure they know what you're looking for, at what price bracket. When something get on their books they will call you before they even advertise it. That's how you get to see it and offer on it quickly

joujou wrote: »

Perhaps I should lower my expectations as to how long the process will take, and just be more patient?

Yes as a FTB myself I was and still am surprised by how slow everything goes.

I'm not sure that my experiences are worth recounting as we're in the process of buying in a London suburb and that might be too different from where you are. But as is the case for you, properties around here seem to get sold within a couple of weeks.

We were looking for 4 months before we had a offer accepted, had offers on two other properties rejected in that time, and were not in time to even get a viewing on several others we liked the look of.

joujou wrote: »

Why don't estate agents just be honest with me and say - house x, y and z are serious about selling and are willing to entertain reasonable offers?

Agent is never going to tell you that someone is not serious about selling. If vendor is not serious then it annoys the agent nearly as much as you, but agent is always going to want to make them serious by giving them your great offer, as opposed to scare you away by telling you the vendor is a nightmare!

joujou

Thank you all for your replies.