Party Wall Act 1996

luke123456

Neighbour has not started work- I was told they were planning to start next year some time. But shouldn't The survey be done before the work starts?

The letters sent from these solicitors suggest the works will involve a Party wall. A Party Structure Notice has not been served.

I think the form was a local one and not a nationally recognised one

keystone

luke123456 wrote: »

Neighbour has not started work- I was told they were planning to start next year some time. But shouldn't The survey be done before the work starts?

For a Party Wall Award ONLY if the the Party Wall Act applies. If it doesn't apply then whats the point of engaging a Party Wall Surveyor? I have given you the circumstamces in which the PWA applies so is there a party wall involved or are they going to be digging within 3m of your nearest wall or not? The plans the Council have sent you will enable you to determine that. The letter you have received from the council is regarding whether or not you object to them granting planning permission I'm guessing. Thats not the same thing.

The letters sent from these solicitors suggest the works will involve a Party wall.

Well of course they do. They want you to sign up because once you have you can't sack them and its a licence to print money - all of which the neighbour pays.

A Party Structure Notice has not been served.

If, and only if it applies then they must do so a minimum one month before work commences.

Am I being unclear? Apologies if so.

Cheers

paddy's_mum

You might wish to write a very polite letter to your neighbours pointing out that it is entirely possible (and quite common) for a single surveyor to be appointed. Both sets of neighbours can agree to appoint a joint one and as the surveyor is obliged to be impartial (by both the law and the RICS professional guidelines) both properties are protected under PWA, at minimum cost.

Cynical little soul that I am, I'd also add that my gut feeling is to pick a surveyor yourself (ask your solicitor if he can recommend a local one) rather than going with someone whose details just happened to drop through your letterbox.

I think your neighbours are being a bit silly and rather short-sighted in not communicating better with you. All sorts of irrational fears and worries simply grow bigger where one party feels that it is all alone facing a potential Goliath. Perhaps a pleasant but inexpensive bottle of wine dropped off with the letter suggested above might melt the ice a little?

Good luck.

kellye14

If they are planning to start work next year, then they might serve you a notice one month before work start. So if you instruct a surveyer now and they decided not going ahead with the work, then you will be entitled to pay for the cost.

I think you really need to tell your neigbour your worries and let them know you would like a PWA done before work start.

cyclonebri1

You were going to talk to the neighbour in the earlier posts you made, what was the result of that?
Without knowing how you got on, I still think there is time to talk to the neighbours again.
I get what you say about not getting on, but if you go over their obligations under the party wall act and appraise them of what it may cost them, then it may just prevent a worsening situation.

If that gets you nowhere, then inform them that you are about to appoint a surveyor at their cost, at least you will have done all you can.

Have you seen the plans yet, ie how close is the wall?,
and what did you say in reply to the councils letter asking for your views of the planned work??

luke123456

The letters I have received front here solicitors so far state that as a oft conversion is proposed then 2, 3 or 4 steel beams will be needed to be put in the walls.

I know that they are planning on doing a rear loft conversion extension and a side elevation also.
They are also proposing to extend their kitchen in the downstairs ground level to make it 4m long. I know ours is 3m, so there's wills tick out a bit more. They are also making their detached garage into a habitable living space with a study, gym and WC toilet only.

The councils letters sent only stated the above and I logged in online to see the plans of the works. Which do not mention anything about what they intend to dig up or do....

I did not object to any of these works as the lady from the council (planning officer) said that they would pretty much be bale to get all this under permitted development even if I diapered. Although the council themselves may refuse to give them the side elevation but I just felt that to make an objection, it will be sent to the neighbour and put up online with no way of me making anonymous objections and my mum didn't want to do this and make the objections. Seems pointless if I was to do it anyway as they would probably go ahead with the works and thats what the council seemed to portray.

I am not sure what you mean by how close is the wall...?
Its a side and rear elevation to the existing loft and extension of the kitchen at the ground floor by 4m into the kitchen. This may be touching my wall. I do not know. The council also seemed to hint it maybe too large 4m but they may end up getting it as PD allows 6m now.

Talking to the neighbour they may not know the structural works that will happen themselves and even if they do, they may not tell me the try extent and in any case I owuldnt want to rely on what they say verbally and then the 'plans changed later' is what they can say later and I wouldn't have anything to stand on.

I just need to ensure that the PWSdoesnt end up charging me for anything tbh we have invested so much in our house I wouldn't wanna risk any damage at the expense of our neighbour who isn't being particualry pleasant on a number of issues atm which I don't want to go into here...

I really appreciate everyones advice.

If I contact the RICS and use a solicitor they recommend in the area and I speak to them regarding this (rather than the solicitors who have sent things in the post) and they should give me honest advice right??

Thanks to all

cyclonebri1

That was the info I was wanting, your wall is up to the boundary, theirs will be too, give or take a knat's

This is where the 45deg thing with the foundations come into play. Keystone mentioned it earlier. Your foundations will run under you boundary and into the next doors land. Under the act it is allowed to do so.
Now when the neighbour also wants to do the same, I get out of my depth, (I don't know).
But they can't undermine your existing footings that's the 45* bit.
Someone will know.

The interior bit for the loft shouldn't be too much to worry about.
I assume it's for the steel purlins to replace the existing wooden one's
They may be moved, they often are to gain headroom, but they should sit exactly as the originals. Given that they are in the roof space, it shouldn't cause you a problem, and you can always go up your side to follow progress.;)

I think the key issue is to ensure your neighbour knows about the act and is aware that you will slap the surveyor in his lap if he isn't open with the plans/situation.

Again, did you make him aware of his obligations under said act.

time2deal

The Party Wall notice only needs to be sent a few months (max) from the proposed start of work, so at this stage it may be that they don't have a start date, so aren't sending it too you.

Try not to worry about work you have done to decorate your own home. The whole point of the act is to get someone in who assesses:

1. Starting condition of your property - pre works
2. Ending condition of your property - after works

If 1 does not equal 2, then the neighbours have to pay to repair it. It's intended to ensure you are treated fairly through the process.

I did an extension a few years ago, and nearly got caught by Vincent Brown. They will work hard to CREATE a dispute between you and your neighbours, using very aggressive language once they are appointed, and are very hard to get bookings etc with. I am still scarred from my brief contact. Remember you are the one who has to be a neighbour for many years, long after VB or other party wall surveyors are gone.

In the end I managed to use a local surveyor, who was wonderful and friendly. He acted for 2 neighbours, put in place a very professional and neat award, and in the end we had done no damage so once the works were complete, it was all over.

luke123456

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

That was the info I was wanting, your wall is up to the boundary, theirs will be too, give or take a knat's

This is where the 45deg thing with the foundations come into play. Keystone mentioned it earlier. Your foundations will run under you boundary and into the next doors land. Under the act it is allowed to do so.
Now when the neighbour also wants to do the same, I get out of my depth, (I don't know).
But they can't undermine your existing footings that's the 45* bit.
Someone will know.

The interior bit for the loft shouldn't be too much to worry about.
I assume it's for the steel purlins to replace the existing wooden one's
They may be moved, they often are to gain headroom, but they should sit exactly as the originals. Given that they are in the roof space, it shouldn't cause you a problem, and you can always go up your side to follow progress.;)

I think the key issue is to ensure your neighbour knows about the act and is aware that you will slap the surveyor in his lap if he isn't open with the plans/situation.

Again, did you make him aware of his obligations under said act.

So Can I just check, you are saying the loft conversions shouldn't cause any harm really? Its the rear ground floor extension to watch out for?

These firms keep saying the beams will be put for the loft conversions so I wasn't sure which is to worry about the loft conversions or the rear extension.

Also are you saying that they won't be able to extend their rear extension by more than mine (which is 3m?) As they are planning for 4m but under PD they can go for up to 6m...?

Also, I don't know what his obligations are under the said act, please can you enlighten me?


Also I appreciate the comment about the neighbour being my neighbour forever...whilst these companies will walk out...I don't want to fall out with them hence we didn't really object to the plans as on the balance of things wasn't really worth it but also don't want our work to go to waste as I say we have many thousand pounds in our house work.
Thnaks!

keystone

Crikey Moses! Does the proposed works involve a party wall and are thgey going to be building within 3m of an existing wall of yours? The answers to those two simple questions determine whether or not the Party Wall Act applies or not. If it doesn't apply you DO NOT need a Party Wall Surveyor.

Cheers