An interesting idea , but is it legal ??

Sagwala · 22 May 2013 at 7:52PM

Basically my deal is up soon on my Gas and Elec Tariff. Obviously the new tariff will only be going in one direction, namely up!
If I stick with my existing supplier, and overread my meter before the tariff changes, am I breaching any terms and conditions and being fraudulent, or am I basically being prudent and bulk purchasing my gas and electricity at the current price.

Isn't this exactly what the utility companies do anyway, when they bulk purchase the gas at X and then charge us Y then Z, then anything they like really !!!!????

Your thoughts please ......

Cardew · 22 May 2013 at 8:06PM

That idea has come up loads of times.

Obviously it is not legal - it is deception. However action would never be taken against you - you just misread the meters(both of them!)

However if you were moving to another company - they have to agree the correct meter reading at change over, and the losing/gaining company is unlikely to accept your inflated reading if it were way out. They have an algorithm that estimates consumption and it will flag up any discrepancy.

The same applies if you are staying with the original company.

You might fiddle a pound or two!

rogerblack · 22 May 2013 at 8:13PM

Interesting question.
My view would be yes, you are committing an offence. (exactly what offence is another question)
Clearly, you could legally purchase 10000 units at the current price and store it in a battery. (It would be as big as a house)

The problem is, that you're not doing this.

The electricity company offers you the ability to purchase units at xp/kWh over a given time period.
They can raise or lower their rates as they choose.
This contract is based on you using the electricity at that time, and does not extend into the future allowing you to purchase electricity at the old price.

If you overpay by £100 then there is no contract made saying 'You owe me 1000kWh of electricity'.
There is simply a credit of £100 against your account.
If the price then doubles - this doesn't magically become a credit of £200.

MillicentBystander · 22 May 2013 at 9:32PM

This thread just demonstrates the pathetically inadequate levels of investment we are getting from the privatised energy suppliers in this country. I mean it's 2013, we've been to Mars for crissakes, successful heart transpants are now routine, face transplants are no longer the stuff of fantasy, scientists are growing body parts in the lab and we have even cloned a sheep. But your energy supplier hasn't the foggiest idea how much of their fuel you have unless they send a person round to read your meter or you tell them how much of their fuel you have used. It's crazy when you think about it, isn't it?

Can you imagine having to tell your broadband supplier how many of their GBs you have used this month??

Sagwala · 22 May 2013 at 9:45PM

Cardew wrote: »

That idea has come up loads of times.

Obviously it is not legal - it is deception. However action would never be taken against you - you just misread the meters(both of them!)

However if you were moving to another company - they have to agree the correct meter reading at change over, and the losing/gaining company is unlikely to accept your inflated reading if it were way out. They have an algorithm that estimates consumption and it will flag up any discrepancy.

The same applies if you are staying with the original company.

You might fiddle a pound or two!

interesting, but what exactly is illegal and deceptive about it? I am just bulk buying in advance my fuel at current prices.

The utility companies do exactly the same. They commit to an amount of gas or electric at a certain rate, and that rate remains static until that allotment is all used up. They then renegotiate.

What doesn't stop during this negotiated allotment price is their unstoppable price hikes. They buy at 5p, sell at 20p then 40p then 70p ( you get the idea) but their purchase price remains at 5p, until its all gone.

yangptangkipperbang · 22 May 2013 at 10:04PM

rogerblack wrote: »

Clearly, you could legally purchase 10000 units at the current price and store it in a battery. (It would be as big as a house)

The problem is, that you're not doing this.

...................because you cannot store AC in a battery

;)

Cardew · 22 May 2013 at 10:15PM

Sagwala wrote: »

interesting, but what exactly is illegal and deceptive about it? I am just bulk buying in advance my fuel at current prices.

You are asked to give a meter reading(s) and are lying by giving a false reading. Lying to gain a pecuniary advantage.

Your contract(and yes you are on a contract) is for them to supply you with the gas/electricity you consume at Xp/kWh to a defined date.

If you wish to test your 'theory' about bulk buying in advance, then ask the company(any company) if they will agree to your 'cunning plan'.

Years ago I was on one of the early BG fixed plans paying IIRC under 2p/kWh for gas and 6p/kWh for electricity. As the plan came to an end I would happily have added say 100,000kWh(costing £2000) to my gas meter reading, and 50,000kWh(£3,000) to my electricity meter reading. I wonder if BG would have accepted that proposition - answers on a postcard!

Sagwala · 22 May 2013 at 10:29PM

Thanks Cardew, I might add that I completely agree with your posting and am not that naive as to actually think it is an achievable proposition.

Interesting idea though. I am sure some 'ballsy' chancer is trying it and getting away with it somewhere.

Either that, or they have just rerouted the wiring to take their supply of the streetlight, whilst they grow copious amounts of 'horticultural medication' in the attic.

Thanks for your thoughts

Cardew · 22 May 2013 at 10:48PM

Sagwala wrote: »

Interesting idea though. I am sure some 'ballsy' chancer is trying it and getting away with it somewhere.

You might get away with a few pounds.

However the utility company's computer have a quite sophisticated algorithm to estimate consumption on any given date(it even takes input of weather from Met Office and is independently audited).

I have an annex that is little used and the gas/electricity consumption is sporadic depending if someone is staying.

Some years ago, on tiny usage, I gave the meter readings on a change of supplier. The losing supplier rejected my(true) reading and increased the meter reading by 2kWh! Obviously all done by computer without(I hope) human intervention.