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Globalisation v Parochialism
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communal control of property doesn't seem to work in reality (it never has worked beyond a very small scale agrarian subsistence group AFAIAA)I've read stuff written as late as the 1950s and 1960s where aboriginal family groups have avoided contact with the whites up until there was at least an outside chance that they'd be treated in something like a reasonable fashion.
From what I've read (not nearly enough) I think that there was some ownership of 'stuff'. Spiritual things were often owned either by a Shaman figure or by individual men I believe. Hunting tools the same
I would recommend a book called Island of Wings by Karin Altenberg. It is set much closer to home than Australia, and tells the true story of a Christian Extremist Missionary's attempt to impose the values of the Industrial Revolution upon the people of St. Kilda. It is written as a novel, and therefore contains lots of well-researched but imaginary content.
Although St. Kilda lies less than 100 miles from Scotland, and was regarded as being 'owned' by a Scottish lord, it was populated well into the 19th century by people living the life of primitive tribespeople, complete with 'superstitious' beliefs about the knowledge and wisdom and continuing influence of 'the ancestors'.
The books offers no solutions, but it asks all the right questions about the pros and cons of Globalisation v Parochialism.
TruckerTAccording to Clapton, I am a totally ignorant idiot.0 -
I would recommend a book called Island of Wings by Karin Altenberg. It is set much closer to home than Australia, and tells the true story of a Christian Extremist Missionary's attempt to impose the values of the Industrial Revolution upon the people of St. Kilda. It is written as a novel, and therefore contains lots of well-researched but imaginary content.
Although St. Kilda lies less than 100 miles from Scotland, and was regarded as being 'owned' by a Scottish lord, it was populated well into the 19th century by people living the life of primitive tribespeople, complete with 'superstitious' beliefs about the knowledge and wisdom and continuing influence of 'the ancestors'.
The books offers no solutions, but it asks all the right questions about the pros and cons of Globalisation v Parochialism.
TruckerT
Not sure if you have read Tom Steel Life and Death of St Kilda?
Fascinated me for a couple of decades. I re-read it last year and hoped I may get a chance to get there whilst on a holiday to the Isle of Harris last year. Even spending time on Harris makes you realise the distance even though it is only an hour and half from Skye.
An incredibly beautiful but hostile place in extremes. I didn't get to St Kilda but I can imagine (a little) how they fared.
As you make the point they subsisted for generations in near complete isolation. Whilst greater association with and increasing interdependence on the "outside" world wasn't the only thing that contributed to their "downfall" it certainly hastened it.
Even in the simplicity of the barter system they were still "shafted" by the factor although the MacLeod's did show some degree of benevolence in the later years."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
and the increased availability of unhealthy foods and drugs (made possible by capitalism, whose modus operandus is to generate new demands for previously unheard of products)).
That actively promotes unnecessary, unhealthy options and from which our governments recover substantial taxation.
That actively promotes lots of unnecessary goods, services and products that add little value other than self gratification for minimal periods of time or insure arbitrary risks that any reputable supplier would not seek to evade."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »Not sure if you have read Tom Steel Life and Death of St Kilda?
Fascinated me for a couple of decades. I re-read it last year and hoped I may get a chance to get there whilst on a holiday to the Isle of Harris last year. Even spending time on Harris makes you realise the distance even though it is only an hour and half from Skye.
An incredibly beautiful but hostile place in extremes. I didn't get to St Kilda but I can imagine (a little) how they fared.
As you make the point they subsisted for generations in near complete isolation. Whilst greater association with and increasing interdependence on the "outside" world wasn't the only thing that contributed to their "downfall" it certainly hastened it.
Even in the simplicity of the barter system they were still "shafted" by the factor although the MacLeod's did show some degree of benevolence in the later years.
Some 20 years ago, I was on a chartered sailing boat around the Hebrides, and St. Kilda was our intended destination. But, believe it or not, the weather was so 'good' that we would have had to motor, rather than sail, and none of us could face the prospect - the engine was totally rubbish, and there was an hourly charge for using it!
At that time, St Kilda was occupied by the military, and it was not at all clear how easy it would have been to get ashore.
Another Scottish island which I never managed to get to is Foula, the western-most Shetland Isle.
Interestingly, according to the book I mentioned, one of St. Kilda's problems was that the majority of their young were dying due to the '8-day' disease, which now seems likely to have been caused by tetanus. The tetanus in the soil may have been created by the use of bird carcasses to fertilise the land.
The St. Kildans may have inadvertently polluted their own habitat to the point where they could no longer survive.
Ring any bells, anyone?
TruckerTAccording to Clapton, I am a totally ignorant idiot.0 -
The Health Issue seems to be one of the hottest potatoes in the argument about the benefits of capitalism, and we are hearing more and more stories about the Health and Social Services' declining effectiveness.
The self-inflicted ill health is largely due to the increase in disposable income and the increased availability of unhealthy foods and drugs (made possible by capitalism, whose modus operandus is to generate new demands for previously unheard of products)).
But, nevertheless, we all enjoy better health and longer lives than our predecessors, even though some of those lives are not worth living due to all sorts of disabling accidents and incurable medical conditions. The problem now is that we cannot afford the cost of keeping us all alive.
And so we have a growing debate about the desirability of euthanasia.
TruckerT
Fascinating that Trucker dislikes ordinary people having more disposable income as they might misuse it.
Then adds complete nonsense about euthanasia.0 -
Some 20 years ago, I was on a chartered sailing boat around the Hebrides, and St. Kilda was our intended destination. But, believe it or not, the weather was so 'good' that we would have had to motor, rather than sail, and none of us could face the prospect - the engine was totally rubbish, and there was an hourly charge for using it!
At that time, St Kilda was occupied by the military, and it was not at all clear how easy it would have been to get ashore.
Another Scottish island which I never managed to get to is Foula, the western-most Shetland Isle.
Interestingly, according to the book I mentioned, one of St. Kilda's problems was that the majority of their young were dying due to the '8-day' disease, which now seems likely to have been caused by tetanus. The tetanus in the soil may have been created by the use of bird carcasses to fertilise the land.
The St. Kildans may have inadvertently polluted their own habitat to the point where they could no longer survive.
Ring any bells, anyone?
TruckerT
We went just at the end of season. on the cut over week when they stopped running the fast rib charter vessels. On reflection I am not so sure my stomach would take a 3 hour each way ride on a wild mouse.
As you say tetanus was one of the factors that overwhelmed them. Especially when the birth rate dropped. That and poor harvests, less numbers of able men and decline in demand for what they could "harvest" and produce. The population decline hastened by the lure of a "better" life on the mainland that "destroyed" many.
When they were eventually evacuated I found it fascinating how they obsessed in parliament and at local government who would pay to save their lives."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
Fascinating that Trucker dislikes ordinary people having more disposable income as they might misuse it.
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Not so sure Trucker dislikes people having more disposable The system that "gives" them the income is helping prematurely kill or disable some of them as they are encouraged to buy products promoted to them.
Ironic really."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
Back in 1965, I went with some of my military chums and lobbed a rocket over St Kilda - terrific fun.
http://www.abandonedcommunities.co.uk/page43.html0
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