A total farce.

coinxoperated

Hi all,

I recently posted this:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4593651

Today, prior to being given an actual start date for the 17k a year job, I was asked to attend for a couple of hours to go through the 'business plan'.

I was placed in a room, with an 'operational report' which clearly showed that the since the company opened 18 months ago, they have not met a single of their aims or goals. Not one.

I was then given a business plan (which consisted of 2 pages... not back to back :eek:)

I was left for 90 minutes, the director returned and asked I would work for 7 quid an hour instead of what 17k per annum works out too!!!! Oh, and could I work every other Sunday (never agreed or discussed!!!!! :eek:).

I said I wasn't happy reducing the agreed payrate as this is what we had agreed and what I had accepted... he then went on to say how much they need me, but don't think they can afford me if I won't drop my wage!!!!!!! I felt it to be, not only extremely insulting, but a complete farce. I do have dismissal on my employment record, which I accept can reduce opportunities going forward, but I am hand in hand extremely experienced in a particular sector, which is quite rare for an employer in the sector to be able to find. I had already accepted a rather 'cheap' wage for my skillset, this was just like a kick in the teeth.

My issue with finding employment is the bigger companies have a policy not to take anyone on who's been dismissed in the last 3 years, so I am having to go with *newer* companies who don't have such policies yet. I appriciate that they can't generally afford the 'going rate' for someone with my skillset, but as I don't want to be squeezed out of the sector I'm taking a reduced pay until I can build a companies confidence in my abilities given my dismissal reasons).

I came home and decided that as I am already dreading going in for 4 hours on Thursday to 'renovate the website'... (I'm good on computers.. but have no experience or qualifications to renovate a whole website with HTML and nor have I said I do at any point!!!) that I will be taking the other job for less money overall.

After this, if you had the choice, would you have still gone along with the 17k a year job over the 12.5k a year job?

I ask, because I have previously been with a single company for a very long time. I suppose I have a certain expectation of the quality of the company I want to be employed by, Am I being spoilt? Am I being sensitive?

I'm just very concerned about joining a company that due to their own lack of knowledge in the sector and the importance of basic business techniques, it will actually be another hit to my CV as whatever I do, I can't make them invest more money in something. If they don't invest, it won't progress. It's a difficult sector to explain without going into specific details.

Just interested on thoughts!

claret_mike

Why not try & negotiate, you want the hourly rate what you agreed but you will work a smaller number of hours to fit within their budget?

Be creative, work out where you can impact most on improving their income/profitability and look to earn your place which should lead to a good case for them to afford you for more hours.

If you have no other options then you could take the job regardless but then you could end up going job to job etc, which doesn't look great on a CV either.

Blackbeard_of_Perranporth

Ok. Fine. I has no clue what you are on about, except if you are a graduate software engineer, and you take a job for £17,000 .. Particulate.

Question is, what do you want from this job?

Takeaway_Addict

Could you negotiate, say £7 an hour but also a bonus based on profits if you turn it around.

Doesn't sound like its easy and only you can judge whether this is worth the risk.

[Deleted User]

Sorry to see this not sure what to say, can you afford to ditch both, bide your time a little for now and re-look?
I mean if preferred job 1 is changing the bounderies now, what could happen later

Both sound like they could possibly make you unhappier? - it isn't worth it chuck if you feel deep down there not going to be viable

Just my initial two pence for what it's worth xx

Tygermoth

If within the first few days they are changing the agreed terms at interview, they are asking you to do more (and stuff your not qualified to do) have not met any of their own goals and already are making excuses i would run a mile. I say this from experience but at the time i was in the same situation as you and i was very hard to give up a viable job just on a feeling.... but:

2 years ago i had been made redundant and started with a firm which sounds similar. On the start date some of the agreed perks had vanished from the contract and the salary was less. I took it up with MD who blatantly said that the reduction was because the market was on his side and he could get a number of people in immediately to do the role for that salary - take it or leave it. He was not wrong there is very little in the area jobs wise so even though i has reservations i sucked it up.

The MD was all lovely when you were doing 60 hour weeks but being paid for 40. Taking on all the tasks that he threw at you or dumped via email and vanished leaving deadline work ticking like a time bomb in the inbox. Wild and demanding work expectations, nasty rebukes and harking back to past mistakes which was the caused by his own poor communication - woe betide should you even think to tell him that. The changing of agreed goals was the norm and as such it always felt you were on a bank of shifting sand. Asking you to do things out of your remit (and scope of knowledge) promising to bear in mind your inexperience.... then b*tching and windging when it was not up to the professional standard he expected ranting that i was being paid 'a lot of money' (utter BS) to do my job and he could just snap his fingers and have another in the role by lunch time.

Luckily i had interviewed at another company and forgotten about as they had taken so long to get back to me. When i handed in my notice all hell broke loose because the MD realised what he was losing. He still refused to offer a reasonable wage for my work but tried to blackmail, false promises and pressure me in to staying.

I left.

He then went on to employ in to my position an old co-worker of mine who he did exactly the same too and promptly drove him into depression and work related stress so bad that it has him housebound at the mo.

moneyistooshorttomention

I'm presuming that this initial 2 hour thing they sprang on you was unpaid? The phrase "set a sprat to catch a mackerel" comes to mind - as in "Lets see if we can get him in working for a couple of hours for nothing and if he goes for that - then there is a good chance we can get away with telling him the salary will be lower than agreed once we get him through the door for that unpaid couple of hours..."

They are trying to take you for a mug and the question is whether you can find some other job that won't do this...

Don't know if they know somehow about that dismissal and therefore feel they "have a hold" on you that they wouldn't have on someone else?

Was that dismissal for a "fair 'nuff" type reason (ie doing something wrong) or for an unfair reason (you were doing the job perfectly okay but they took exception to something perfectly okay about you personally)? I am wondering because I've been dismissed before now for reasons that were to do with their personal opinions about me personally (rather than because of actually having done anything wrong iyswim).

coinxoperated

Thanks for the replies!

I had originally been told when I went in yesterday they would add it to my pay, it was only 1 1/2 hours in where he said I was 'doing him great favour' did I realise they never intended on paying me for it. The original reason for the 2 hours was to learn a system they use which I have little experience of. I don't honestly mind going to 'work' to prepare for the actual job when I can start, but this was ridiculous.

I do have another job offer with a much better company but its 5k less per annum, but ill be taking that and continuing my job search for something more suitable.

Taking to my OH, we agreed that a job that brought home 5k less a year that didn't make me entirely miserable was worth it and that we could afford it for a while, so I think I'm making the right choice.

Now, how's best to tell them? I'm split between an email and a telephone call!

Any

Quite frankly, it is sounds like complete and utter farce and they are bunch of cowboys.
I haven't seen or heard of such an unprofessional behaviour on a market stall!!

I would definitely take the less paid job where there is at least some professionalism... chances are, this bunch of cowboys wouldn't care enough to pay/pay on time as well.

They sound like that sort of company.

Funky_Bold_Ribena

Email and say you will be invoicing for the hours that you have already done.

pinkshoes

coinxoperated wrote: »

Taking to my OH, we agreed that a job that brought home 5k less a year that didn't make me entirely miserable was worth it and that we could afford it for a while, so I think I'm making the right choice.

Now, how's best to tell them? I'm split between an email and a telephone call!

At £7 an hour, surely that's £13,500 is, so not much more than the other job?!?!

In which case, just take which ever job you'd enjoy the most.

I'd take the £7 an hour one, because I like a good challenge, but I'd make it clear that I have been offered other jobs, so if they mess me around, I'd be leaving. I'd also negotiate bonuses should I sort the mess out.