standing charge - is this true?

dexion7

We recently took occupancy of a small office to use for storage only. The electricity was switched off when we moved in and none has been used yet npower keep sending estimated bills which also include a standing charge.

We have not signed any agreement with them but they say that we are nevertheless in a 'deemed contract' and are thus liable for the standing charge even though we don't need or want the service!

is this correct?

macman

Yes, you are indeed in a deemed contract from the day you moved in. Even if consumption is zero, a daily standing charge is payable for the supply and metering. It's your responsibility to register and submit opening reads on the day you occupy.
Your alternative is to switch to a tariff with no standing charge-though if it's a business tariff, this may not be an option.
The default tariff is Standard, which is always the most expensive.

undaunted

A deemed contract begins when you begin to take supply. If you haven't used any electrcity let them prove that they are supplying you.

Npower may claim that they are doing so & do, I am aware have some very old case law that they claim supports this. It was never heard in Court & it can still be argued that they are wrong as the cases they referred to rely upon the meter being owned by the consumer. In modern times it is not generally so.

More recent legislation refers to your "taking a supply" - it would appear that you have not yet done so!

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1989/29/schedule/6/crossheading/deemed-contracts-in-certain-cases

Ofgem guidance / interpretation
http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/Markets/RetMkts/Compet/Documents1/Guidance%20on%20deemed%20contracts%20as%20per%20Standard%20Licence%20Condition%207.3%20of%20the%20Gas%20and%20Electricity%20Supply%20Licences.pdf

Naf

When you took over the space, you also inherited existing energy supply. Many standard tariffs include a standing charge, and if you hadn't checked the supplier and terms when you took over, then you'll be charged based on the existing supply.
Just switch to a supplier/tariff without standing charge. But you're liable for the standing charges accrued unto you change.

dexion7

well Npower agree that if i didn't use any leccy then the standing charge is not valid. here's their reply:

[FONT=&quot]Dear Mr XX[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Complaint Reference: 1-999999999[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]According to the Utilities Act 2000 and the regulations concerning “deemed contracts” outlined therein, a written contract is not an essential prerequisite to responsibility for supply. When a landlord or tenant knowingly makes use of the utilities available at their premise, they immediately enter into a deemed contract with the supplier of those utilities and therefore become liable to pay for the provision of their products and services. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]To verify if any consumption has been used on the meter XXXXXXXX please can you provide an up to date meter reading.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The former occupancy provided us with a meter reading for 1 February 2013 when the vacated the property. Subject to no usage on the meter along with verification of the meter reads from yourself or our meter readers, standing charges will be removed from the account. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Invoices are issued quarterly, the next invoice date is 18 July 2013. Currently we have billed you for the period 1 Febraury 2013 - 18 April 2013, the oustanding balance is £49.32, however this is subject to beeen re-billed on the confirmation of no usage. To prevent invoices been issued I would recommend a short term de-energisation on the meter until a new tenant is found to prevent any invoices been issued and you been held responsible should usage be used on the meter.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]If you can provide us with a meter reading we can re-bill the account, as advised previously should the reading you provide show no consumption on the meter we will withdraw the standing charges. If you would like to organise a de-energisation please let us know and we will confirm when the next available appointment is with your local Meter Operator.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I hope this clarifies the situation for you and provides you with an acceptable way forward. If you have any questions please contacts us on 0845 672 9240 or alternatively email [EMAIL="Customer.Relations.Manager@npower.com"]Customer.Relations.Manager@npower.com[/EMAIL]. Please do NOT reply directly to this email.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Regards[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Katie Barnard
Senior Complaints Advisor - Business SME
RWE npower [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Tel. (Internal) 0845 672 9240
Tel. (External) 0845 672 9240:T

[/FONT]

lstar337

dexion7 wrote: »

well Npower agree that if i didn't use any leccy then the standing charge is not valid. here's their reply:

[FONT=&quot]Dear Mr XX[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Complaint Reference: 1-999999999[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]According to the Utilities Act 2000 and the regulations concerning “deemed contracts” outlined therein, a written contract is not an essential prerequisite to responsibility for supply. When a landlord or tenant knowingly makes use of the utilities available at their premise, they immediately enter into a deemed contract with the supplier of those utilities and therefore become liable to pay for the provision of their products and services. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]To verify if any consumption has been used on the meter XXXXXXXX please can you provide an up to date meter reading.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The former occupancy provided us with a meter reading for 1 February 2013 when the vacated the property. Subject to no usage on the meter along with verification of the meter reads from yourself or our meter readers, standing charges will be removed from the account. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Invoices are issued quarterly, the next invoice date is 18 July 2013. Currently we have billed you for the period 1 Febraury 2013 - 18 April 2013, the oustanding balance is £49.32, however this is subject to beeen re-billed on the confirmation of no usage. To prevent invoices been issued I would recommend a short term de-energisation on the meter until a new tenant is found to prevent any invoices been issued and you been held responsible should usage be used on the meter.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]If you can provide us with a meter reading we can re-bill the account, as advised previously should the reading you provide show no consumption on the meter we will withdraw the standing charges. If you would like to organise a de-energisation please let us know and we will confirm when the next available appointment is with your local Meter Operator.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I hope this clarifies the situation for you and provides you with an acceptable way forward. If you have any questions please contacts us on 0845 672 9240 or alternatively email [EMAIL="Customer.Relations.Manager@npower.com"]Customer.Relations.Manager@npower.com[/EMAIL]. Please do NOT reply directly to this email.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Regards[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Katie Barnard[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Senior Complaints Advisor - Business SME[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]RWE npower [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Tel. (Internal) 0845 672 9240[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Tel. (External) 0845 672 9240:T[/FONT]

Nice result. Well done.

Wywth

dexion7 wrote: »

well Npower agree that if i didn't use any leccy then the standing charge is not valid. here's their reply:

[FONT=&quot]Dear Mr XX[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Complaint Reference: 1-999999999[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]According to the Utilities Act 2000 and the regulations concerning “deemed contracts” outlined therein, a written contract is not an essential prerequisite to responsibility for supply. When a landlord or tenant knowingly makes use of the utilities available at their premise, they immediately enter into a deemed contract with the supplier of those utilities and therefore become liable to pay for the provision of their products and services. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]To verify if any consumption has been used on the meter XXXXXXXX please can you provide an up to date meter reading.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The former occupancy provided us with a meter reading for 1 February 2013 when the vacated the property. Subject to no usage on the meter along with verification of the meter reads from yourself or our meter readers, standing charges will be removed from the account. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Invoices are issued quarterly, the next invoice date is 18 July 2013. Currently we have billed you for the period 1 Febraury 2013 - 18 April 2013, the oustanding balance is £49.32, however this is subject to beeen re-billed on the confirmation of no usage. To prevent invoices been issued I would recommend a short term de-energisation on the meter until a new tenant is found to prevent any invoices been issued and you been held responsible should usage be used on the meter.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]If you can provide us with a meter reading we can re-bill the account, as advised previously should the reading you provide show no consumption on the meter we will withdraw the standing charges. If you would like to organise a de-energisation please let us know and we will confirm when the next available appointment is with your local Meter Operator.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I hope this clarifies the situation for you and provides you with an acceptable way forward. If you have any questions please contacts us on 0845 672 9240 or alternatively email [EMAIL="Customer.Relations.Manager@npower.com"]Customer.Relations.Manager@npower.com[/EMAIL]. Please do NOT reply directly to this email.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Regards[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Katie Barnard[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Senior Complaints Advisor - Business SME[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]RWE npower [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Tel. (Internal) 0845 672 9240[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Tel. (External) 0845 672 9240:T[/FONT]

Really? Is that what was sent? :eek:
(My highlighting and underlining)
If so I think Katie should go back to school and re-take her GCSE English paper! :cool:

You'd be better off paying the relatively small standing charge than the disconnection/reconnection charge.

macman

And that's from the Senior Complaints Advisor.
I wunder if her gunior kan do grammer any beter?

undaunted

Hey, leave poor Katie alone. Her grammar may not have been perfect but she was at least helpful here, that's a very rare trait in an Npower employee!

I therefore say well done to both Katie & Dexion7

fishykippers

Hi, I have the same problem but with Gas. I am a tenant with a private landlord and moved into this property in October 2012. There is no gas appliances in the property and has been all electric (from what I can gather) for 5 years. Because there is a gas meter outside I had to give EON the meter reading on moving in. It was the same reading as per the 2 years prior, as the lady at EON confirmed. Everything has been quiet until recently when I got a bill for £18.33. Now, I know that isn't much but I am on benefit and every little counts! I phoned EON and was put through to Collections Dept and explained that I have no gas in my home. She said that it was an estimated bill for gas usage, then changed it to "its a standing charge" when i challenged her. Apparently, she said that from 1st Jan 2013 EON have had to introduce standing fees on gas meters?? I have never received any letters stating this though? Its not even a key meter. Today, I have received a letter from the Utility Debt Services, intending court action. I feel sick and worried. What can I do? Any suggestions please??

superbigal36

Our business continually gets £0.00 bills from our suppliers where we are on no SC tarriffs and not consuming power.
We still get calls all the time offering to get us a better deal as well