After some career advice (cefa/ cemap)

JoeK_3

What a load of negative signals most of you are sending out about the UK financial industry and particularly to JimmyUK.

To me he suffers from what a lot of people do in early life and that's trying to find your niche. At 26 he's a youngster and searching for the thing that will give him both job satisfaction and a good standard of living in the future.

All the negatives in here can't be good for anyone looking at the industry, as they will be turned off immediately.

We have a great cross section of people that attend our CeMAP and CeFA training courses, that range from the medical profession, motor mechanics and existing bank and building society employees.

Many of the bank employee’s people have had to work their way through the system and eventually become mortgage advisers.

Whilst I agree that sales skills are important, there are thousands of people in banks and building that have little or no sales ability but give advice and recommendations in a supervised capacity.

Come on guys, let's open up our vision and let's not have tunnel vision.

JoeK

apk1

Joek I agree with your comments 100% but in fairness to Jimmyuk, the chance of him walking into a bank and getting them to train him are next to nil, yes he could start as a cashier, earning very little and being treated as poorly then hope to move up, but that could take years, if he could show some initiative and get Cemap done then he would be much more appealling and could save a couple of years (time is money !)

dunstonh

It isnt being negative but being realistic.

Half of new joiners wont make it. So, before you decide to go down the adviser route you need to consider if you have what it takes to do the job and also you have what it takes for a prospective employer to believe that you can do the job.

Those that join the industry and fail tend to leave in debt.

yes he could start as a cashier, earning very little and being treated as poorly then hope to move up, but that could take years

When I worked in a bank the manager used to threaten you if your sales performance wasnt good that "if you dont improve I will stick you on the till". He would say it in front of the cashiers too.

It took me nearly 4 years to get off clerical roles into sales and then another 2 years to get off general insurance to get mortgages and then another year to get into full advice. It is quicker nowadays as you had to do every job when I started and every job was graded.

the chance of him walking into a bank and getting them to train him are next to nil

I was a trainer and area manger for a bank at different points and you would take on someone if you thought they would get you the targets. We rejected a number of people who had the qualifications as they didnt come across as sales material. We also dismissed some very nice individuals who were very competent but just couldnt sell enough products. We took on non-qualified individuals a number of times who had a sales background.

It just reminds me that I am so pleased to be out of the sales environment but it is still the best career path for most.

So, dont look at the posts thinking they are negative. They are realistic.

JimmyUK_2

Thanks for all of your advice, it has been very helpful indeed.

Ok, so my next step is to enroll on CeMAP 1. However, I have come across mortgage/financial advisory courses being offered by CII. How do their courses differ from the likes of CeMAP and CeFA? Should I take a closer look?

Thanks again!

dunstonh

CII are the most popular. There isnt much difference though as the FSA set the required level and approve them.

Nick~C_3

I hear a lot of advice which suggests the best route is to go through the banks, but what about taking the IFA route?

I know the commission style payment puts some people off, but by the time you find that elusive pay-roll job you could have started earning a self employed income. From what I can gather, its far easier to get started this way.


Any thoughts?

Nick

dunstonh

Going to straight to IFA on self employed basis is impossible. No network will touch you as a company owner unless you have had at least 12 months experience and be of competent adviser status. I believe the FSA wont authorise owner/partner control functions to inexperienced individuals either if they are the adviser as well.

Self employed advisers are financially liable for the advice they give. It takes years to really learn what you are doing and it is too much of a liability to go straight to Self employed IFA.

I spent 8 years as a tied agent and the move from tied to IFA just showed me how much of a gulf there is in the knowledge. I know many others that have gone from tied to IFA and they all feel the same. To go that one in one jump would just be asking for trouble.

Nick~C_3

Hi dunstonh
Thanks for the reply

"Going straight to IFA on self employed basis is impossible"

I see many advisers coming through this route, including myself, so I'm intrigued about this.

Do you mean it is impossible in terms of full financial advice ? Or do you have the same view for any level of advice i.e. mortgage advice only? Just to clarify I'm talking about becoming a self employed AR working within a branch, i.e. an independant mortgage adviser in an estate agents.

I'm not naive to the liability which I am taking on and I appreciate your view on this. But with the amount of new advisers entering financial services through the route I mentioned, then the FSA, networks and firms must be comfortable with this?

Jarlawuk

Cute_n_Quirky wrote: »

I guess that you have not attempted finding a placement with a bank as a Trainee Mortgage Adviser - particularly outside the City of London.

I work for the co-op bank as a customer relationship adviser. Upon obtaining a full uk driving license I will be training to be a Financial Adviser for co-op insurance services. So if the co-op do it, I guess other banks probably would too.

MortgageMamma

I believe cheltenham and gloucester will train people up to be advisers - I went to into my local branch for a meeting the other day and there was a trainee adviser there about to sit cemap 1

I went into my job self employed from day 1 - it was a long hard slog and I'm one of the few that made it. The reason being I am resourceful, down right stubborn and determined and well connected within the industry. Saying that I am a mortgage adviser, I only do mortgages and protection - my job is very different to that of an IFA - having worked with IFA's for 13 years now I agree with Dunstonh - you cannot suddently leap into the industry as a self employed IFA without relevant experience - and you'd be lucky to last out as a mortgage adviser if you did the same

I am told the industry lacks new blood and thats because there is nowhere to get training and guidance to CAS status. Well that must be a bit of a myth as I've never seen so many trainee advisers and wanabee's on these boards and also other forums such as singingpig and cherry.

I think another factor with trainees coming into the industry and then leaving is that they do not realise that it is not an easy fast track to being rich. It takes years to build up a successful business and you will be lucky if in your first three years you get past 40k self employed. I guess it must be easy to want in on the industry when you see us guys driving around in flash cars with nice houses etc. The advisers in that position have been at it many years and in all likelihood the cars are leased anyhow.

Was that a rant.....blimey not had one of them for a bit have I?