Co-tenant not paying rent

Jamieb1988

Hi,

I am currently in a house share and have been living in it for the last 2 and a half years. Of the existing tenancy which was signed last August, for whatever reason I am the only name left on this and the other 2 (of the 3) current tenants have only recently signed a new tenancy agreement, which will be valid when the current one expires (August). One of the tenants who moved in in January is 13 days overdue in rent and is withholding rent due to a dispute regarding some mold / damp in the bathroom and is currently taking legal advice (she's a student lawyer but previously worked in property law and apparently taking advice from 'one of the best residential property lawyers').

Now the landlord is constantly on at me as I'm the only name left on the tenancy and thus liable for the house rent. He's telling me to give her notice and get someone else in, whereas she's saying to me ignore any threats he may give and she'll deal with it.

Can anyone advise as to what I should do?

Thanks in advance!

princeofpounds

Are the tenancy agreements for the house or for individual rooms?

For the newer tenants, were they given an entirely new tenancy or were they assigned a place on your tenancy (not what you THINK happened, but what the paperwork actually shows).

Is the tenancy joint and several?

Did you pay a deposit and was it appropriately protected?

The biggest mess, for the landlord, here is that it is not possible to create a tenancy (yours) for a whole house and then create a new tenancy on the same house with different people whilst the previous one has not finished.

Your description is vague but this amateur legal structure may help you out.

Jamieb1988

Are the tenancy agreements for the house or for individual rooms? The Tenancy is for the whole house.

For the newer tenants, were they given an entirely new tenancy or were they assigned a place on your tenancy (not what you THINK happened, but what the paperwork actually shows). They've been given a place on my current tenancy, with the 'new' tenancy being a changing of the names from the old tenants to the new ones.

Is the tenancy joint and several? I'm not sure.

Did you pay a deposit and was it appropriately protected? Yes - in 2010. I don't believe the deposit was protected as when my housemate moved out in April he couldn't find any records of the deposit with any of the Government backed schemes, nor any record of the certificate with the original agent.

The biggest mess, for the landlord, here is that it is not possible to create a tenancy (yours) for a whole house and then create a new tenancy on the same house with different people whilst the previous one has not finished.

I'd like to point out that this isn't a 'me against the landlord' scenario, I have a decent relationship with him and haven't had any issues and he's being relatively understanding / patient and want to stay in the property for the foreseeable.

princeofpounds

Is the tenancy joint and several? I'm not sure.

Suggest you read it then, as this is the most important point. It probably is, but it may not be.

They've been given a place on my current tenancy, with the 'new' tenancy being a changing of the names from the old tenants to the new ones.

OK, then it is not a 'new' tenancy but an assigned tenancy. That is more correctly structured than your original description. I assume you have agreed to this (either explicitly or implicitly by not contesting it)?

I don't believe the deposit was protected as when my housemate moved out in April he couldn't find any records of the deposit with any of the Government backed schemes

I suggest you contact all three schemes to check yourself. Because this will be your biggest defence quite possibly, the threat of suing for non-protection.

I'd like to point out that this isn't a 'me against the landlord' scenario, I have a decent relationship with him and haven't had any issues and he's being relatively understanding / patient and want to stay in the property for the foreseeable.

Unfortunately the landlord might be right, in that you are responsible for all of the rent if you are in a joint and several tenancy. He can pursue any of you he likes for the rent, and may choose to pursue the easiest rather than the party who cause the problem.

In that case you will need to sue your co-tenant to recover the money.

By the way, it's quite likely your co-tenant doesn't know what she is doing. Mould is not a valid reason to withold rent (there are actually very few) though it can be legally tackled in other ways. Having said that, of course I don't know all the details and may be mistaken in this initial view. If you can get more details about why she is pursuing this course of action and what her plans are that would be helpful.

If you are no longer in the fixed period of the tenancy, it might be the best option to work with the landlord on this and limit your exposure to liabilities that are building up. If you give notice, that will cancel the tenancy for all the parties. Your LL may then choose to award you a new tenancy that excludes the co-tenant. That's one option. There are a few details to consider but if your co-tenant is no longer a viable person to share a contract with then it might be a good approach.

anotheruser

The first mistake is when you wrote:

Jamieb1988 wrote: »

Of the existing tenancy which was signed last August, for whatever reason I am the only name left on this.

What reason? Why are you the only one left if there are more people in the house? It sounds like you are solely liable for the rent because your name is the only one left on the tenancy agreement.

If the new people are on the tenancy then why is the LL hassling you about it? Because you are friends? That's the only reason I can see, but this is his fight, nothing you should get involved with.

But your post isn't very clear

tbs624

Jamieb1988 wrote: »

Hi,

I am currently in a house share and have been living in it for the last 2 and a half years. Of the existing tenancy which was signed last August, for whatever reason I am the only name left on this and the other 2 (of the 3) current tenants have only recently signed a new tenancy agreement, which will be valid when the current one expires (August). One of the tenants who moved in in January is 13 days overdue in rent and is withholding rent due to a dispute regarding some mold / damp in the bathroom and is currently taking legal advice (she's a student lawyer but previously worked in property law and apparently taking advice from 'one of the best residential property lawyers').


Now the landlord is constantly on at me as I'm the only name left on the tenancy and thus liable for the house rent. He's telling me to give her notice and get someone else in, whereas she's saying to me ignore any threats he may give and she'll deal with it.

Can anyone advise as to what I should do?

Thanks in advance!

My bolding.What a total muddle.

Why does the LL expect *you* to give this "co-tenant" notice? Are you effectively subletting? Does the "co-tenant" pay rent (when actually making payment) direct to the LL or to you, with you then paying the LL?

It would perhaps be easier for respond posters to follow your situation if you could set it out with tenants A, B, C etc and a timeline, showing what sort of tenancy agreement was signed by whom and when ( ie, one agreement with joint and several liability, individual room/use of shared communal space

It sounds as though your LL is a total amateur.

Jamieb1988

Thanks for the advice Prince.

The landlord did say in passing that he would be happy for me to give notice and let out the tenancy as a four. I'm hoping it will not come to that as in the first instance I just want to outline to my current tenant the situation and ultimately where I stand. As mentioned before, the other tenants have signed a proposed document extending the tenancy, but this is still sitting in my room and ultimately could get lost if i were to go down this route.

I'm thinking of drafting out the below to the tenant:

"x

I've been seeking advice regarding the current situation of you withholding rent from the landlord. It is apparent that this is in fact illegal as withholding rent due to damp is in violation of our contract. As the current tenancy is a house agreement and not a individual room agreement, the rest of the house is liable for the rent. As I am the only name left on the existing tenancy, this will mean I am liable. I have spoken with the landlord and he is happy for me to give notice 1 months notice on the current agreement and he will then let the house out as a four to new tenants.

Obviously I don't want it to come to this but it's not in my interest to be personally liable for your rent. I therefore propose you either pay this months rent immediately to the landlord (and also June & July's as and when appropriate), or I get a new tenant in who can move into the room ASAP.

Can you please advise
Jamie"

I will obviously discuss with the landlord before hand if he's happy for me to do this. I will also CC in the 2 other tenants.

Do you think this is ok?

Jamieb1988

anotheruser wrote: »

The first mistake is when you wrote:


What reason? Why are you the only one left if there are more people in the house? It sounds like you are solely liable for the rent because your name is the only one left on the tenancy agreement.

If the new people are on the tenancy then why is the LL hassling you about it? Because you are friends? That's the only reason I can see, but this is his fight, nothing you should get involved with.

But your post isn't very clear

Because 3 of my friends moved out (2x redundancies and 1 went travelling) so we had to get new people in.

Their names are not currently on the tenancy. It's only been the last few weeks a tenancy has been drafted with the current occupiers names on. I'm assuming the landlord is on at me because I'm liable and it's a lot easier for him for me to deal with it as oppose to him giving the whole house notice to then having to find 4 new people, so it's mutually beneficial.

tbs624

Jamieb1988 wrote: »

..... I just want to outline to my current tenant the situation and ultimately where I stand. As mentioned before, the other tenants have signed a proposed document extending the tenancy, but this is still sitting in my room and ultimately could get lost if i were to go down this route.

I'm thinking of drafting out the below to the tenant:

"x

I've been seeking advice regarding the current situation of you withholding rent from the landlord. It is apparent that this is in fact illegal as withholding rent due to damp is in violation of our contract. As the current tenancy is a house agreement and not a individual room agreement, the rest of the house is liable for the rent. As I am the only name left on the existing tenancy, this will mean I am liable. I have spoken with the landlord and he is happy for me to give notice 1 months notice on the current agreement and he will then let the house out as a four to new tenants.

Obviously I don't want it to come to this but it's not in my interest to be personally liable for your rent. I therefore propose you either pay this months rent immediately to the landlord (and also June & July's as and when appropriate), or I get a new tenant in who can move into the room ASAP.

My bolding

Jamie - you refer to this other occupant as being "my tenant" and then later to the rent being due to the LL ( your LL?)

Clarification needed.

If the other occupant is your lodger and rent is due to you ( which you then pass on as part of the full rent for the house) then she has fewer rights than if she is a T of your LLs.

As a T she cannot be booted out during her Fixed Term, unless LL issues appropriate S8 Notice ( due to non payment of rent) and obtains a court order.

princeofpounds

Whilst Jamie's first posts were a bit confused, this is my interpretation of subsequent comments and an attempt at clarification (jamie, correct anything that's not right) :

It appears that the OP entered a tenancy with 3 original co-tenants.

Those co-tenants then left at various times. They were replaced by 3 new tenants, who did NOT get given a new tenancy. They were assigned the position of tenants on the original contract. (Jamie, this is the point you need to be clear on).

One of those new co-tenants has now decided to withold rent.

That interpretation answers these questions:

Why does the LL expect *you* to give this "co-tenant" notice?

The LL expects the OP to give notice to him, so that the tenancy ends for all the tenants.

Are you effectively subletting? Does the "co-tenant" pay rent (when actually making payment) direct to the LL or to you, with you then paying the LL?

No, all the rent is paid direct to the LL. When the OP refers to 'getting a new tenant', that is actually shorthand for terminating the tenancy, then creating a new one with a new member.

As a T she cannot be booted out during her Fixed Term, unless LL issues appropriate S8 Notice ( due to non payment of rent) and obtains a court order.

If the tenancy was assigned, it may well be outside of the fixed term now, or close to it. Given that the OP seems to think it is an option for them to give notice now, I suspect the fixed term has ended.

But anyway, the reason the LL probably wants the OP to submit notice is to avoid all the hassle of regaining possession through a S21 or S8 court process. They would of course prefer the tenants to clean up the mess between themselves.

I've been seeking advice regarding the current situation of you withholding rent from the landlord. It is apparent that this is in fact illegal as withholding rent due to damp is in violation of our contract.

It is not illegal. It might be a breach of contract, that's not the same thing.

As the current tenancy is a house agreement and not a individual room agreement, the rest of the house is liable for the rent. As I am the only name left on the existing tenancy, this will mean I am liable.

No no no! If the new co-Ts were assigned the places of the old co-Ts then you are all still liable. The point is that her unilateral decision to have a dispute with the landlord is making you all liable (probably). This is why understanding if the contract was assigned and whether it is joint and several are SO important. OP, you need to be precise on this - this indicates to me you still don't get it.

I have spoken with the landlord and he is happy for me to give notice 1 months notice on the current agreement and he will then let the house out as a four to new tenants.

I would not tell her any plans - what happens after the tenancy ends is not her concern. I would just say that as you wish to minimise your exposure to any liability from a dispute then you will be forced to give notice, terminating the tenancy for all the occupants as soon as possible.

Obviously I don't want it to come to this but it's not in my interest to be personally liable for your rent. I therefore propose you either pay this months rent immediately to the landlord (and also June & July's as and when appropriate), or I get a new tenant in who can move into the room ASAP.

If you are her co-tenant, you cannot just 'get a new tenant in'. Again, all you can do is end the tenancy and then sign a new one (which is none of her business).

Jamieb1988

princeofpounds wrote: »

Whilst Jamie's first posts were a bit confused, this is my interpretation of subsequent comments and an attempt at clarification (jamie, correct anything that's not right) :

It appears that the OP entered a tenancy with 3 original co-tenants.

Those co-tenants then left at various times. They were replaced by 3 new tenants, who did NOT get given a new tenancy. They were assigned the position of tenants on the original contract. (Jamie, this is the point you need to be clear on). This is correct - the new tenants have not been given a new tenancy (until a few weeks ago but moved in in December, January & March). How do I find out if they were assigned the position of tenants on the original contract?

One of those new co-tenants has now decided to withold rent.

That interpretation answers these questions:


The LL expects the OP to give notice to him, so that the tenancy ends for all the tenants.

No, the landlord has asked me quite a few times to 'give her notice' over text. Myself giving notice to the landlord and thus ending the tenancy has been something which has been briefly touched upon, but something I will explore further if it comes to it.


No, all the rent is paid direct to the LL. When the OP refers to 'getting a new tenant', that is actually shorthand for terminating the tenancy, then creating a new one with a new member.




If the tenancy was assigned, it may well be outside of the fixed term now, or close to it. Given that the OP seems to think it is an option for them to give notice now, I suspect the fixed term has ended. The original contract that I signed ends on the 8th August. I'm presuming I can give a months notice which would in effect end the current contract (if that is possible?)

But anyway, the reason the LL probably wants the OP to submit notice is to avoid all the hassle of regaining possession through a S21 or S8 court process. They would of course prefer the tenants to clean up the mess between themselves. The landlord doesn't want me to give him notice, he wants me to give the other tenant notice which he has said numerous times over text. I'm not sure how to go about this or if this at all legal

[/I]

It is not illegal. It might be a breach of contract, that's not the same thing.



No no no! If the new co-Ts were assigned the places of the old co-Ts then you are all still liable. The point is that her unilateral decision to have a dispute with the landlord is making you all liable (probably). This is why understanding if the contract was assigned and whether it is joint and several are SO important. OP, you need to be precise on this - this indicates to me you still don't get it.

How do I find out if the tenants have been assigned and if it's joint & several?




I would not tell her any plans - what happens after the tenancy ends is not her concern. I would just say that as you wish to minimise your exposure to any liability from a dispute then you will be forced to give notice, terminating the tenancy for all the occupants as soon as possible. My theory behind this is two of the tenants are friends and the co-tenant has repeatedly said she will not do anything to jeopardize us getting evicted or having to pay extra money. I'm taking this with a pinch of salt as on face value I, or we as the rest of the house seem to be liable



If you are her co-tenant, you cannot just 'get a new tenant in'. Again, all you can do is end the tenancy and then sign a new one (which is none of her business).

Apologies for not being clear and I appreciate your patience. I've added my comments in red which hopefully clears a few things up?