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Capitalism Saves Lives
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Not all of us.grizzly1911 wrote: »30/40 years ago we didn't have so much to consume. We have been suckered by the dream.0 -
Not all of us.
No we haven't all been suckered by the dream you are right, just most.
I do find it interesting how people chunter on about exploitation when all big companies do it. Those that have pension plans and investments are more than likely than not benefiting from the share price increases and dividend payments off the back of it.
Apple source through foxconn which has had it's fair share of controversy. Whether the working conditions are safe and humane there is still exploitation, but that is still seen as OK and people will pay way over the odds for the that "dream". Somehow the production methodology gets conveniently forgotten -it is a premium brand so must be OK. Same goes for the Prius owners saving the planet."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
I do understand perfectly well the supply chain....and I understand the consequences to the local labour force who would be made redundant....
The wool for my cardigan came from the UK...it has the British Wool Mark and it was manufactured here.
I don't know where the material for the trousers and top came from, both are man made material. On the other hand some of the money I paid went towards paying wages in this country, not only the people in the shop but in the factory too.
I have never actually shopped in Primark or New Look or in fact a lot of the big name high street retailers. I do use M&S, Debenhams, House of Fraser, John Lewis and Next.
I also use companies like Celtic&Co, I buy slippers from them - expensive but they last for years...made in Newquay, I buy knitwear from them too (made here too and some of the wool sourced here). I also buy knit wear from Wool Overs, Hawick Knitwear....I like some things that you aren't likely to see half the population wearing.
The tragedy in Bangladesh won't really have an impact on my shopping habits tbh. I like what I like.
Would I ever shop in Primark....I wouldn't say no....they just always look like a scrum when you go past one and when we lived near Reading they must have had the busiest shop in Reading and the longest queues.
Whereas I would rather buy clothes made elsewhere and thus be spreading some money to peopl ein countries who probably earn 100th of what those in the UK who you are supporting earn.
I think it is fairer to help those who have least, you seem to think it is better to help those who have much more simply because they live a few hundred miles form you rather than several thousand.
Suppose the rich workers and poor workers lived next door to each other, now which would you rather see getting a share of your money?I think....0 -
That is not true, the vast majority of UK citizens could afford it, they may just buy less or spend less on other things. Most just don't care though.
A jacket from Primark selling for 7 quid is not realistic.
The interesting thing is that without this spending, the whole system would likely collapse.
We are encouraging people to spend on this stuff.0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »
Another example of the Capitalist Liberal Democracy at work.
If the state drug company was acting to the detriment of the people in the USSR do you think it would be:
1. Investigated by the state media company?
2. Anything would be done to the head of the state drug company by the head of the drug regulation organisation that employed him
If GSK have broken the law then there is a working mechanism for bringing them to book. No other system other than Capitalist Liberal Democracy has that.0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »The interesting thing is that without this spending, the whole system would likely collapse.
We are encouraging people to spend on this stuff.
Capitalism doesn't satisfy demand - it creates it.
It creates a demand for better technology, which in turn creates a demand for more science.
But it also needs to create a demand for its products and services.
The end result is not really much better than the lifestyle of wild animals who are not encumbered with over-sized brains.
TruckerTAccording to Clapton, I am a totally ignorant idiot.0 -
Another example of the Capitalist Liberal Democracy at work.
If the state drug company was acting to the detriment of the people in the USSR do you think it would be:
1. Investigated by the state media company?
2. Anything would be done to the head of the state drug company by the head of the drug regulation organisation that employed him
If GSK have broken the law then there is a working mechanism for bringing them to book. No other system other than Capitalist Liberal Democracy has that.
The examples you portray are really two sides of a warped coin.
In an ideal world the collective system would work for the ultimate benefit of it's populace. In the same way that in the capitalist system the competitors would simply come in and take the market offering a more competitive price.
Neither system works in isolation as neither system can be trusted.
Lives in Bangladesh will be saved despite capitalism."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »....In an ideal world the collective system would work for the ultimate benefit of it's populace. In the same way that in the capitalist system the competitors would simply come in and take the market offering a more competitive price....
I think you're missing the point. In the capitalist system you have a mechanism for determining what exactly constitutes the 'ultimate benefit'. It's called the market. In the collective system you don't. So the ultimate benefit gets determined by some apparatchiks.0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »The interesting thing is that without this spending, the whole system would likely collapse.
We are encouraging people to spend on this stuff.
If spending £7 on a jacket is preventing the whole system from collapse (whatever that means) just think what good it would do if consumers were willing to pay £9 for the same jacket and demand it was shared further back in the chain.
When push comes to shove though not enough people care and prefer to pretend they're powerless. Honestly, reading this thread you'd think people were being forced by 'the man' to buy the cheapest possible option.0 -
The problem with Bangladeshi factories is that they're all in competition with each other. Even now, there's no point in any factory owner pricing his factory out of the market. It's not like the costs of improvements are going to come out of his own pocket.
It was the same in this country. Improvements in factory and mine safety came with legislation and the setting up of inspectorates, to keep the playing field level.
What didn't usually work was competition for workers. On the contrary, workers on piecework always tended to resent and resist anything that might reduce their production rate."It will take, five, 10, 15 years to get back to where we need to be. But it's no longer the individual banks that are in the wrong, it's the banking industry as a whole." - Steven Cooper, head of personal and business banking at Barclays, talking to Martin Lewis0
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