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Capitalism Saves Lives
Comments
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Graham_Devon wrote: »Apologies Generali, but what a nonsense!
You could claim that guns save lives too. War saves lives. Afterall, they do, for those remaining after the cause of the battle has be dealt with.
But to say capitalism saves lives, as bluntly as you did ignores the reality of the situation all over the world.
One example is Mumbai. People dying slowly of disease in slums. There was a programme on not long back....toughest place to be a binman, and people were dying on the streets right opposite lavish high end properties. The reason they were dying was the lack of protection, lack of clothing and lack of safety for these people when "serving" the rich in dire conditions, rich only because of capitalism.
All this is is capitalism responding, through fear of a reduction to their revenues. It's nothing more and should not be dressed up as anything more either. 6 months and it will all be forgotten about.
Note that nothing has actually been DONE about these buildings. All thats happened is that these particular companies have switched who they use for a while.
That doesn't change anything. People will still be in these buildings. They have just lose some income. Other companies will still use them.
China has moved from a totalitarian socialism to a totalitarian part capitalism
I wonder which the Chinese people prefer.0 -
obviously you checked out the source of the raw materials?
and being 'bothered enough' isn't the real issue; the issues are concerned with what would the (unintended) effects be on the workers who would probably be made redundant and why aren't you equally concerned with the whole productioin chain?
e.g China has a very high death rate in it's mining industry; as all products use energy with how can you justify buying any Chinese product?
I do understand perfectly well the supply chain....and I understand the consequences to the local labour force who would be made redundant....
The wool for my cardigan came from the UK...it has the British Wool Mark and it was manufactured here.
I don't know where the material for the trousers and top came from, both are man made material. On the other hand some of the money I paid went towards paying wages in this country, not only the people in the shop but in the factory too.
I have never actually shopped in Primark or New Look or in fact a lot of the big name high street retailers. I do use M&S, Debenhams, House of Fraser, John Lewis and Next.
I also use companies like Celtic&Co, I buy slippers from them - expensive but they last for years...made in Newquay, I buy knitwear from them too (made here too and some of the wool sourced here). I also buy knit wear from Wool Overs, Hawick Knitwear....I like some things that you aren't likely to see half the population wearing.
The tragedy in Bangladesh won't really have an impact on my shopping habits tbh. I like what I like.
Would I ever shop in Primark....I wouldn't say no....they just always look like a scrum when you go past one and when we lived near Reading they must have had the busiest shop in Reading and the longest queues.0 -
Profits are a minor consideration, it is the customer that decides what they are prepared to spend.
There are British and European manufactured clothes availalble where from factories where conditions are up to full EU standards. The clothes cost 3 or 4 times as much and the vast majority are too tight to pay.
Fine, but don't then complain about working conditions if you want cheap goods.
Profits are everything, without profit there would be no reason to be in commercial business.
The majority of people can't afford to pay 3, 4 times the price for goods it isn't about being tight.
Collective bargaining is the only thing that will bring about change in Bangladesh and other "sweat shop economies". Perhaps the conditions for the individuals would be a dam site worse without the chance for employment. Perhaps the death rate would be a whole lot higher without food on the table and a roof, however basic, over their heads. Paying for an eductaion possibly to help get their young out of there.
Industrialisation evolved in the West, we didn't go from nothing to employment rights, elf and safety, factories and office acts overnight."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
n capitalism, the people have the power.
In your dreams, only if you have the surplus money.
Interesting how it is the individual purchasers fault for this issue."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
That is not true, the vast majority of UK citizens could afford it, they may just buy less or spend less on other things. Most just don't care though.grizzly1911 wrote: »Profits are everything, without profit there would be no reason to be in commercial business.
The majority of people can't afford to pay 3, 4 times the price for goods it isn't about being tight.
Collective bargaining is the only thing that will bring about change in Bangladesh and other "sweat shop economies". Perhaps the conditions for the individuals would be a dam site worse without the chance for employment. Perhaps the death rate would be a whole lot higher without food on the table and a roof, however basic, over their heads. Paying for an eductaion possibly to help get their young out of there.
Industrialisation evolved in the West, we didn't go from nothing to employment rights, elf and safety, factories and office acts overnight.
A jacket from Primark selling for 7 quid is not realistic.0 -
I know it's a small poll, but I have grown up children who do shop in the likes of Primark and will continue to shop there...yes they were bothered by what happened - but not bothered enough.
Almost 80% of Americians polled by the Huffington Post/Yougov had heard either very little or nothing about the accident.....
http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/toplines_clothing_0502032013.pdf
It looks like change won't really be consumer driven.
.
For the young it offers a variety of choice on a limited budget. They have become accustomed to a throw away society (which capitalists love) and don't necessarily go looking for quality, longevity and I would be surprised if many actually know where Bangladesh, Vietnam or Cambodia are.
Doesn't America have it's own sweat shops in Haiti, Honduras, Mexico etc. with their own problems?chewmylegoff wrote: »I'm pretty sure most big retailers do put the country of origin on their labels - the clothes I've got on do anyway
I am not sure that Primark do. Having done a quick review the other day they simply stated a UK or Ireland address.
In New Look I found 5 or 6 countries of origin on the labels - Lithuania, Cambodia, India, Vietnam amongst them. I doubt their sweat shops are much better.
Would I ever shop in Primark....I wouldn't say no....they just always look like a scrum when you go past one and when we lived near Reading they must have had the busiest shop in Reading and the longest queues.
I think it is dependent where they are located, some are a mix between cow sheds and jumble sales whilst some are better presented.
Whilst shopping with my daughter the only shop that felt like a shop was New Look and at least it had a sofa to sit on.
I appreciate if you buy top end "locally sourced" garments you can get individual character and hopefully they have been made in good conditions. For the vast majority of stuff we buy, not just clothes, we simply don't have a clue where and how it was sourced and put together.
As another poster points out, elsewhere, even stuff "made" in the west may simply have been " finished or gone through final assembly here. The bulk of the work being done in the emerging economies."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
That is not true, the vast majority of UK citizens could afford it, they may just buy less or spend less on other things. Most just don't care though.
A jacket from Primark selling for 7 quid is not realistic.
Some UK citizens can afford it and perhaps choose not to.
There are many more that can't afford to. More so if they have family.
£7 may be unrealistic for a western produced item but we live in a global economy. At some point their prices will rise and ours will continue to fall, as will our living standards, until we meet somewhere in the middle."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
Go back 30 or 40 years and clothes were much more expensive (compared to incomes) but people did not walk around naked. It is a matter of choices.grizzly1911 wrote: »Some UK citizens can afford it and perhaps choose not to.
There are many more that can't afford to. More so if they have family.
£7 may be unrealistic for a western produced item but we live in a global economy. At some point their prices will rise and ours will continue to fall, as will our living standards, until we meet somewhere in the middle.0 -
"If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
Go back 30 or 40 years and clothes were much more expensive (compared to incomes) but people did not walk around naked. It is a matter of choices.
30/40 years ago we didn't have so much to consume. We have been suckered by the dream."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0
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