Signalling on roundabouts

rs65

Mojisola wrote: »

Yes, my Dad was taught this way - indicate left if you're taking the first exit; for any other exit, indicate right until you've passed the last exit before the one you want and then indicate left.

I have a friend who does this.

He reckons he was taught to treat each exit from a roundabout as a separate junction. If he isn't turning left, he indicates right.

I reckon I was taught to treat the whole roundabout as a junction.

Strider590

I reckon there are some idiot driving instructors out there and this is one of those things that started decades ago with a bit of student misunderstanding and has continued to be passed on down the generations. Sort of like how Golfs are supposed to be the most reliable cars in the world.

alastairq

I have a friend who does this.

He reckons he was taught to treat each exit from a roundabout as a separate junction. If he isn't turning left, he indicates right.

I sense a bucket-full of misunderstanding out there?

Any Instructor, at whatever level, will confirm there is a huge gulf between a trainee's perception, and the reality.

When that misunderstanding leads to an issue under training, or on test....then it is rectified.

If it doesn't raise issues at the time, it persists..often, forever.

That is a drawback of any training....and Instructors expend a lot of effort in identifying misconceptions. [a least, they do where I work]....and laying them to rest.

Richard53

Joe_Horner wrote: »

That one still seems to work quite well for warning oncoming drivers [STRIKE]of a speed trap[/STRIKE] to moderate their speed in the interests of road safety because of a hazard you've just passed.

"Honestly, officer, I wanted to slow down because of a potential hazard in the road, and I wasn't sure my brake lights were working, so I gave the signal to be on the safe side. Is there a problem?"

Protip: always take notice if a bike rider taps the top of his head. I can't think why, but slowing down and having a good look around you may not be a bad idea.

alastairq wrote: »

[I have a similar issue with those who teach/train advanced motorcycling...where a road position on a left bend, of being close to the centre line, is advocated [for reasons of vision]...by not understanding what affects a lorry driver coming the other way [a right bend for them].....and the fact that, with the best will in the world, that lorry will have its rear wheels very close to the centre line...by dint of length and width of vehicle.

Right close by the position advocated for a motorcyclist!

With nothing the lorry driver can do to improve matters....!

Very clever!

The 'standard' advice as given by the IAM amongst others, is to ride as close to the centre line as is consistent with a safe position. If the rider is approaching a bend where a lorry might be crowding the centre line, the advice would be to moderate the position closer to the centre of the lane. I have never heard it advised that the rider should get as close to the centre line as possible, no matter what. Of course, if you have positioned for good forward vision, you will have seen the lorry coming anyway

In general, the advice is to position for safety first, and then for forward vision, not the other way round.

alastairq

The 'standard' advice as given by the IAM amongst others, is to ride as close to the centre line as is consistent with a safe position. If the rider is approaching a bend where a lorry might be crowding the centre line, the advice would be to moderate the position closer to the centre of the lane. I have never heard it advised that the rider should get as close to the centre line as possible, no matter what. Of course, if you have positioned for good forward vision, you will have seen the lorry coming anyway

Are riders made aware of the likelihood of large vehicles crowding the centre line...? [As well as being next to the verge/kerb?]

I all too frequently observe riders following a positional line right next to the centre line on, what for them is a left hand curve/bend.

Oblivious to the fact the quite large vehicle I'm in [or, following..] , is also up to the centre line..albeit towards the rear.

Am I to conclude they deliberately place themselves, at a fair old closing speed, very close to the right side of my vehicle?

Or..are they, too, suffering from a surfeit of misunderstanding of what they have been advised?

The lorry may well be seen coming towards them.....but how are they to know how close that lorry will get to the centre line... until it is too late?

Or, for that matter, how much that incoming car is going to cut the corner?

Even, that oncoming biker, cranked over, knee-on-deck, helmet actually right over the centre line?


Where I work, colleagues also happen to be IAM bike instructors [spare time job]...many will admit to having issues such as 'position' emphasised, having become instructors in quite big LGV's...and seeing the 'other side of the story', so to speak?

Thankfully, these days, an important aspect of training is the ability to change, adapt and adjust what is taught....?

Quite a big difference from when I undertook advanced motorcycle training..many years ago now...[in the days when an Avon fairing was 'quite a good thing?']

Richard53

I can't answer for every rider's positional awareness. I was just saying what the IAM, RoSPA etc advise.

bluenoseam

I just did roundabouts 10 days ago during a driving lesson and the way it was put to me was the following.

If you're taking the first left exit, indicate left, position to the left hand side of the lane (or left lane in multiple lane scenarios) & follow your natural path.

If you're taking the straight ahead option, no need to indicate, position in the middle of the lane (or whichever may be marked by road markings), join the roundabout & indicate left after the exit before yours.

If you're taking an exit to the right, indicate right, position to the right of the lane (or the right hand lane/whichever may be marked..), join the roundabout, drive on the inside until you pass the exit before yours, indicate left, swing into the outside lane & take your exit.

That's what I followed during the lesson last week and wasn't being shouted at.

alastairq

Richard53 wrote: »

I can't answer for every rider's positional awareness. I was just saying what the IAM, RoSPA etc advise.

Yes, I realise....I think the point I'm making concerns misunderstandings, or only picking up half the advice?

One see's the same with those who've had a look at 'advanced' driving...and read about overtaking?

They move to an 'overtaking' position.....then stay there for three miles!

Missing the point??

NBLondon

Richard53 wrote: »

Let's assume a simple roundabout, with single-lane roads entering at N, S, E and W.

Here's one I drive frequently... http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=shooters+hill+road&hl=en&ll=51.472886,0.010015&spn=0.000003,0.002411&hnear=Shooters+Hill+Rd,+London+SE3,+United+Kingdom&gl=uk&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=51.47244,0.009503&panoid=cJINQkNhUQhl2MHaq6wfOw&cbp=12,13.13,,0,0
(It's South London)
I'd agree with Richard that to go across from South to North - you need not indicate and should approach in the left lane. However, as shown in this picture, most of the traffic is going East to West (in morning rush hour) and stops across the roundabout. This despite the Keep Clear markings which are visible under the wheels of the yellow-cabbed artic.

So if you are the dark estate car going straight on; you will wait a long time to get on the roundabout. However, if you approach in the right lane with right indicator on (as the silver Fiesta is doing) then it is far more likely that the traffic (e.g. the silver estate) will stop short and allow you to cross ahead of them.

I'd say at least 30% of local drivers do so here - including bus drivers! The exit at North is one lane, so if you do drive it correctly and go around the outside then you have to watch out for someone on your right with their right indicator on who comes off North instead of continuing East as they were indicating:eek:

DCFC79

Deleted_User wrote: »

People who don't stay in their lane on the roundabout annoy me most.

Ahh another bug bear of mine, when im going right at a roundabout the half whit in the left lane is going straight on decides to veer to the right so instead of sticking to the left of the roundabout he prevents anyone wanting to turn right.


Oh and OP I applaud you, theres alot of these half whits rounda here who dont know what an indicator stalk is.