Lease companies paying Parking Eye charges

nigelbb

A Notice To Keeper gives the keeper the option of paying the charge or providing the name & address of the driver to the PPC. Why did the leasing company pay the charge when there was no need? As fisherjim points out they are removing your ability to appeal an unjust charge by doing this. All they needed to do was name you as the driver & this would completely discharge any obligation that they may have had to pay this charge. If the driver subsequently ignores the PPC they cannot hold the registered keeper liable.

In this case the NTK may have been invalid anyway if it was received months late. If it's invalid then the keeper cannot be held liable in any form.

The T&Cs blanket "or other charge in connection with the Vehicle or its use" seems amazingly wide. Will they pay the charge if a "squeegee merchant" sends in an invoice for cleaning the windscreen?

The message for the future post 1st October 2012 & POFA is that if the car is a company or lease car then the driver should always acknowledge that they were the driver & register an appeal.

fisherjim

What I found out with lease companies is as I said before their admin is so understaffed, useless and slow, that they never turn tickets around quick enough to allow the driver time to appeal.
In the case of the main company I dealt with this meant that they usually went right upto, or in many cases weeks or months over the date for appeal and then paid the charge.
This is the reason they state that they will pay fines etc and re-charge the driver with an admin fee, in reality they are just putting a clause in to cover their own inefficiency, which in my view is totally unacceptable.
As they rightly quoted to you the PPC can now pursue the driver of the vehicle if they knew this and quoted this to you why didn't they pass the PPC's request on to you?

In effect they are taking away your right of appeal, they cannot do this however with speeding fines etc as they have to pass them on to the driver, and they process these first at the expense of all else.

One of my team had a fine automatically paid for driving in a bus lane (by ANPR) in London at 3:15 in the afternoon.
After investigating I found you could not even get a bus down the street quoted as it was too narrow, and the bus lanes in adjacent streets were not operational until 4PM, the idiots at the lease company nearly choked, but never crossed me again!

You should demand that they provide all the dates and information they have of all correspondence and show them up for the inefficient idiots they clearly are.
If you paid by card I would also report it lost so it is cancelled and they cannot automatically deduct the charge from you.

billywhizz

Just to give some balance, my wife works for a major leasing company (Not Network), this came up last week with their admin department.

She was given a list of customers to contact who have not paid or contacted the relevant parking companies regarding their debts. The lease company stalled with the private parking companies for as long as they can (6 months) and kept the debts at the initial level, however there comes a point where they are obliged to pay, their view being

1 - As registered keepers of the vehicle, since the law change last year they are liable for the debt
2 - If they cannot prove that the driver of the vehicle has been in touch with the parking company they cannot avoid the debt
3 - Last time they tested this in court they lost!

The advice she was given to pass on to drivers was contact the parking company and give them your details, copying in the leasing company so they are aware you have made contact. From that point on the lease company no longer regard any liability as resting with them and what the driver does from then on is between the PPC and the driver.

For the record they get, on average, some kind of fine, penalty notice etc every 45 seconds every day, that gives you some idea of the volume of these that companies have to handle.

Stroma

billywhizz wrote: »

Just to give some balance, my wife works for a major leasing company (Not Network), this came up last week with their admin department.

She was given a list of customers to contact who have not paid or contacted the relevant parking companies regarding their debts. The lease company stalled with the private parking companies for as long as they can (6 months) and kept the debts at the initial level, however there comes a point where they are obliged to pay, their view being

1 - As registered keepers of the vehicle, since the law change last year they are liable for the debt
2 - If they cannot prove that the driver of the vehicle has been in touch with the parking company they cannot avoid the debt
3 - Last time they tested this in court they lost!

The advice she was given to pass on to drivers was contact the parking company and give them your details, copying in the leasing company so they are aware you have made contact. From that point on the lease company no longer regard any liability as resting with them and what the driver does from then on is between the PPC and the driver.

For the record they get, on average, some kind of fine, penalty notice etc every 45 seconds every day, that gives you some idea of the volume of these that companies have to handle.

That is against their trade BVRLA body's advice, they and the BPA quite specifically deal with what the Lease/Hire companies should do, and that is send back the ticket with details of the person hiring the vehicle. Then they are not liable for this ticket.

Once the parking company has a serviceable address they cannot go back to the RK of the vehicle, and they bloody well know it! They would be in breach of the BPA Code of Practice!

The lease company your wife works for are utterly useless I'm sorry to say, all they would be interested in is the the admin fee from their client! And if they lost at court then they are completely and utterly useless, they must be a shambles to deal with.

They like every other lease/hire company I have seen never cover private parking companies, they always mention fines and penalties, nothing else.

nigelbb

billywhizz wrote: »

J1 - As registered keepers of the vehicle, since the law change last year they are liable for the debt
2 - If they cannot prove that the driver of the vehicle has been in touch with the parking company they cannot avoid the debt
3 - Last time they tested this in court they lost!

1) Since 1st October 2012 & Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act in certain limited circumstances there is the right to claim unpaid parking charges from the keeper of a vehicle. Note "claim" not demand or have a right to be paid.
2) As soon as the registered keeper has notified the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver then the keeper's obligation is over. The keeper is then not responsible for the unpaid parking charges.
3) This has never been tested in court by a hire or lease company. There have in fact been few if any cases of unpaid parking charges being brought to court since 1st October 2012 that refer to contraventions since 1st October 2012 when the possibility of keeper liability became law.

The_Slithy_Tove

Seymour73 wrote: »

They enclosed copy of signed agreement which states:
An administration fee of £42(inc VAT) each time we pay a fixed penalty, fine, congestion or other charge in connection with the Vehicle or its us, in addition to requiring you to reimburse us in respect of such payment (see paragraph 2.2 of the Terms and Conditions)

BPA confirmed that there was a change in legislation as mentioned by Network.

The change in legislation actually has an explicit get-out for hire companies (and, I would suggest, lease companies, too).

Time to cancel your direct debit to stop them taking the money. Then send them a cheque each month to ensure you keep up with your normal monthy payments.

And complain to the lease company about their poor administration and complete ignorance of the situation.

Seymour73

The lease company have now sent the T&Cs. The relevant para reads:

2.2 You must pay all fixed penalty charges, fines, congestion charges or any other penalties in connection with the Vehicle or its use. If we pay or transfer liability to you for any of these sums on your behalf you will repay us upon demand any sums so paid and an administration fee.

It does seem to be a far reaching clause!

surfboy1

Seymour73 wrote: »

The lease company have now sent the T&Cs. The relevant para reads:

2.2 You must pay all fixed penalty charges, fines, congestion charges or any other penalties in connection with the Vehicle or its use. If we pay or transfer liability to you for any of these sums on your behalf you will repay us upon demand any sums so paid and an administration fee.

It does seem to be a far reaching clause!

However , the PPC ticket is neither a FINE ,a FIXED PENALTY , a CONGESTION CHARGE or PENALTY of any form .:)

The_Slithy_Tove

Seymour73 wrote: »

It does seem to be a far reaching clause!

Not at all. Is it a

• fixed penalty charge - no
• fine - no
• congestion charge - no
• other penalty - no ("penalty" is very specific, and a parking charge is not one)

You will need to be very firm with them that the Ts&Cs as quoted DO NOT cover speculative invoices in the form of Parking Charge Notices.

nigelbb

Seymour73 wrote: »

The lease company have now sent the T&Cs. The relevant para reads:

2.2 You must pay all fixed penalty charges, fines, congestion charges or any other penalties in connection with the Vehicle or its use. If we pay or transfer liability to you for any of these sums on your behalf you will repay us upon demand any sums so paid and an administration fee.

It does seem to be a far reaching clause!

but not the same wording as what you posted earlier.

A parking charge from a private parking company is not a penalty or fine it is an invoice. The leasing company have breached their own T&Cs. They have paid & are now out of pocket but that's not your problem. They owe you a refund.